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I Pastor Hilton Biswas from Bangladesh. and i greet to you from Bangladesh.

you maybe saw i do not use Pastor before my name

and i request you brother, please feel free to ask me anything you want to know.

me:
Are you a pastor?

HB:Yes I just complete

What did you “complete”?

HB: pastor course

I would like to examine your pastor course.

HB: i am sorry brother! i do not want to give exam.. but want to learn from you about it.. please help me to understand

This is why it’s necessary to examine your course. Do you have any literature? (From “Grace Bible College”, where he claims he completed a course)

HB:  i tried to find them in online for more information but i can’t

Neither could/would he give me their address or phone number.

What do you believe about baptism ?

Answer unclear.

Where is grace bible college?

No clear answer.

What were you taught by them?

No clear answer.

Remember though:

HB: “and i request you brother, please feel free to ask me anything you want to know.”

Who do you buy blankets from?

HB: Local Muslims.

Are there not any CHristians selling blankets?

No response.

It seems abundantly clear to me (when nothing else he says is) that Hilton desires to keep me in the dark on every question I ask, but clearly states he wants money. He has no problem telling me in English why he thinks he needs money. He must be aware that he jeopardizes his income if he says the wrong thing, so he refuses to answer anything about what he teaches, what he was taught, where the school that supposedly gave him a pastor certificate is located, or it’s phone number so i can verify his claim.. He claims his connection is slow and his English is not good.

Jimmy Miller, Founder of GMFC, must have assumed the authority to command me to cease communication with Hilton, then either (or also) blocked or unfriended me, and has not replied to my Feb 7 email, which I sent again on Saturday Feb 14th.

I will no longer support his ministry, or anyone else’s who refuses to answer my questions.

I sent an email to Jimmy Miller on Feb 7th, 2015, but he has not yet responded to it. Patti sent him a pm apologizing for anything she may have said that he took offense at, and he replied to her, saying he would correspond with us, but he has yet to do so. It is now May 25, 2015

Yesterday, May 24th, Jimmy Miller told me to never contact him again.

  • Alan Ray The above are excerpts from days of pm with Hilton. You can clearly see that Hilton introduced himself to me as “PASTOR” Hilton Biswas, then later in his communication he denied he uses that title.
  • Alan Ray Marvin Heiman asked me to find out what Hilton is teaching and “hold his feet to the fire”, then attacked me when I found Hilton an evasive liar. Jimmy did the same. That Neither of them know what Hilton teaches is obvious.
  • Michelle Scott Hamilton The world is filled with deceivers seeking financial gain.

    I think it is a waste of time to go after them, at least I am not so inclined today. There’s probably 99 million of them. My hope is we only need very, very few to do what is right and true and the charlatans will flee….

    Unlike · Reply · 1 · 6 hrs
  • Alan Ray it is sad that there are countless greedy “ministries” deceiving people for money, but when i find one i wont be silent.
    Like · Reply · 2 · 6 hrs
  • Alan Ray Miller threatened me with legal action yesterday, and had one of my posts deleted by fb
    Like · Reply · 1 · 6 hrs
  • Alan Ray But he didnt complain about the op in the string where i exposed HIS ministry, which was exposing another fake
    Like · Reply · 1 · 6 hrs · Edited
  • Michelle Scott Hamilton He won’t sue you because it will shame him and he is in Bangladesh from what I can tell.

    We each have different gifts and yours may be for justice or correction, be well.

  • Alan Ray Jimmy Miller lives in Florida on a “compound with his wife, and Marvin and Vicki Heiman. Miller founded Global Missions for children, and solicits donations for Hilton Biswar. He refuses to answer any questions as Hilton does.
  • Melissa Sharon Did you not admit in writing that you were impatient with Hilton Biswas?
  • Melissa Sharon “You can clearly see that Hilton introduced himself to me as “PASTOR” Hilton Biswas, then later in his communication he denied he uses that title.”

    This could be a language issue. He may introduce himself as pastor H.B. but prefer you to just call him Hilton.

    It is possible that H.B. is not who he says he is. But it is also possible that Marvin and Jimmy are seeking to discover more about him.

    I would imagine that any new ministry has kinks to work out, and these take time. Can you imagine if the Apostle Paul was judged by the state of the Corinthian church? People might have thought he was a fake, had they not realized that growth takes time and much patient teaching/learning.

  • Alan Ray When a pastor evades any and every question asked about what he teaches, how he spends donated funds, if he pastors a church or not, where and what he was taught, why he thinks he’s qualified to be a pastor…. and the overseeing ministry attacks the person who THEY ASKED to monitor that pastor when he reveals these facts- with evidence, there is no doubt a great problem that should not be dismissed as if they are truly working out the kinks. They have HUGE kinks they REFUSE to address.
  • Melissa Sharon I agree that the problem shouldn’t be dismissed. However, if the overseeing ministry deems that you are too impatient to be helpful, they may be trying to fix the problem themselves.
  • Alan Ray I did apologize for becoming impatient with Hilton’s evading my every question, but i did not and do not repent of asking him any question i asked
  • Alan Ray Miller said he would answer Patti and my questions in FEBUARY, and yet he refuses. He and Kerrigan now think i have not truly repented, and think i should drop it all completely. Then let someone else ask them what Hilton is teaching, or ask Hilton themselves [be sure to ask him about his FAMILY FIRST, for that is a prerequisite according to Marvin and Jimmy that qualifies you to probe Hilton] and see if they will provide evidence of that and of where all those donations are going.
  • Melissa Sharon Unless you are 100% certain that H.B. has been found truly guilty of withholding information and deceiving, I don’t think continual FB exposes are wise or righteous. There are 2 reasons I’m not convinced that H.B. is a fraud (though he might be)–

    1.) The language barrier, and your admitted impatience with him.
    2.) The fact that the overseeing ministry may have done their own examination of him since your examination of him, found it satisfactory, and not taken you into their confidence due to the strife between you.

  • Melissa Sharon Ray, I see their point of view. You apologized and asked forgiveness. Then you brought it up again repeatedly. Obviously there is a disagreement, but we can’t control other believers.

    I understand you still think H.B. is a fraud, and that’s possible. However you can’t control how other people operate in ministry. I believe in trying to control through repeated emails and “exposes,” you have made it so that they don’t want to deal with you anymore. This does not mean they aren’t looking into H.B. further. Unfortunately, their not dealing with you anymore only confirms in your mind that they aren’t trying to do the right thing.

  • Melissa Sharon Your calling them a “cult” and saying they “live on a compound” etc. is also not helpful, and does not demonstrate an honest attempt to understand them. There was a time when you and Patti and I talked about how we’d love to all live and minister together.
  • Alan Ray Melissa you are grossly mistaken to continue to assume that i ever apologized for asking Hilton to be accountable, as I have already said i never have, and yes, i bring that issue up again and again because it has not been resolved. Have you forgotten that Marvin explicitly said he and Jimmy OWE ME NO ACCOUNTABILITY? I was told to shut up. This is the very way the three cults I’ve been part of over the space of 10 years taught me how cults operate.The Lord opened my eyes to their manipulation and intimidation methods by allowing me to be a part of them until I learned my lesson so well I was qualified to warn others.
  • Alan Ray THEY have called it the compound! But that is totally inconsequential.
  • Alan Ray Melissa, if you have been supporting GMFC, it’s your personal responsibility to know those you support. Now, especially after having been warned about Hilton Biswar, if you continue to support that ministry, knowing how I have been treated after revealing my findings to it, having been falsely accused, rejected, silenced, condemned as a “child of the devil”, and threatened with legal action if i continue revealing those findings and the other hateful responses from the leaders, you are a partaker of those evil deeds.
  • Alan Ray i have never imagined nor pretended to control some pastor in Pakistan or two men in Florida by emails, by ignoring them, or by threats. But they have attempted to control me by those things. And they are very frustrated that their intimidation and forbidding me to speak have not been successful.
Alan Ray I have absolutely no hope to someday control the Children of God cult, the Jim Roberts cult, or the James Butler cult I was once part of. But I will certainly make every effort to keep others from being deceived and manipulated by them and every other corrupt ministry i become aware of, out of love for the brethren.

This collection of verses from the Bible show what scripture concerning the idea that a Christian MUST attend some denominational (or non-denominational) “church service” to qualify as a Christian. Given the present distress of the great “falling away”, and the vast multitude of churches affected, the Bible debunks that argument, and the misuse of Heb 10:25 [commonly used to support it]. These verses go far deeper than merely addressing “gathering at the church of your choice”, and touch on what true worship is, and what it is not; what we should do, and what we should not do.

Isa 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
Act 7:47 But Solomon built him an house [despite the fact].
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Isa 66:2 For I have built my house with my own hand.

1Co 6:19 What? KNOW YE NOT THAT YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY GHOST, which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify [WORSHIP] GOD IN YOUR BODY AND IN YOUR SPIRIT, which are God’s.

the calling of [your church] assemblies, I cannot away with; YOUR SOLEMN MEETING IS INIQUITY. [Your church “services” are an ABOMINATION!]
Isa 1:14 Your appointed feasts MY SOUL HATES: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
Isa 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

Going to a church is a sacrifice

Isa 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog’s neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine’s blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but THEY DID EVIL BEFORE MY EYES AND CHOSE THAT IN WHICH I DELIGHTED NOT.

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers [WITHIN or without the apostate church system]: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with [Baal; the devil]? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for YE ARE THE TEMPLE OF THE LIVING GOD; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM, AND BE YE SEPARATE, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Isa 66:5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name’s sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified [“YOU MUST WORSHIP every Sunday in a temple made by men, or else you are not a Christian”]: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
Hos 8:14 For ISRAEL HAS FORGOTTEN HIS MAKER, AND BUILDS TEMPLES; and Judah hath multiplied fenced cities: but I will send a fire upon his cities, and it shall devour the palaces thereof.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, “I am [an ordained] Christ[ian minister]”; and shall deceive many.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly warns that in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron.

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

2Pe 2:1 [As] there were false prophets among the people, even so there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but TRY THE SPIRITS whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Tit 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
Tit 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’$ sake.
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Ye have made the commandments of God of none effect by your tradition. [Calvinism, OSAS, Zionism, mandatory church attendance, coddling known fornicators, adulterers, covetous people, liars, false teachers, etc.]
Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But IN VAIN THEY WORSHIP ME, teaching for doctrines the commandments [and doctrines] of men.
Mat 15:14 LET THEM ALONE: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness:FROM SUCH WITHDRAW THYSELF.
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, MARK THEM which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; AND AVOID THEM.
Rom 16:18 For THEY that are such DO NOT SERVE OUR LORD Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Jer 23:11 For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.
[God sees everyone’s sins! Billy Graham DENIES IT! Graham and many others claim that God doesn’t see our sins: all he sees is Jesus]
Jer 23:13 And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and CAUSED MY PEOPLE TO ERR.
Jer 23:14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and WALK IN LIES: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: THEY ARE all of them unto me AS SODOM, AND the inhabitants thereof as GOMORRAH.
Jer 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, HEARKEN NOT TO THE WORDS OF THESE PROPHETS that prophesy unto you: THEY MAKE YOU VAIN: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
Jer 23:17 They say still unto them that despise me, “The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace”; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, “No evil shall come upon you.” [“Ye shall not surely die”]

Isa 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.
Isa 1:23 Thy princes [PASTORS and leaders]are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gift$, and followeth after reward$: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.29625wolfinsheepsclothing

Hoshi'ana

As I listened to the State of the Union address last night, and considered the recitation of successes by the current administration, I considered that none of these speeches acknowledged the Almighty.  If America were so healed and prosperous, why do we continue to see worldwide devastations? Poverty? War? Abortion? All manner of sin?

Could it be we are judging by man’s standards and not God’s? Do we gauge success by a decreased unemployment roll or new business starts? These things may be good, yes, but is God in the mix? Are good things happening to America because of her godliness?

Or is this just a farce? Is the wool being pulled over citizens’ eyes to believe we have peace and safety?

There is no peace for the wicked and that is scripture. Peace will never come as long as we are slaughtering the unborn and funding them through…

View original post 239 more words

Christ’s bride “made herself ready”, as wise virgins, by hearing Christ’s words and doing them. They kept oil in their lamps with extra containers. [faith and works] But Babylon, the unfaithful woman, was an harlot, who did not ready herself for judgment day. She exalted herself, beat the Lord’s servants, even killed them, and ate and drank with the drunken.
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Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth

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God’s word tells his holy apostles and prophets to rejoice when he judges “Babylon”.

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Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the MARRIAGE SUPPER of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

for in one hour is she made desolate.

Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

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“Babylon” was once a faithful city where righteous people lived, but it became a habitation of devils, so God called his people out of her. Jesus told them to flee to the mountains before she would be destroyed. Rev 18:2,4,5; Luke 21:20-24

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Isa 1:2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.

Isa 1:3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master’s crib: but Israel doth not know [me], my people doth not consider [my ways].

Isa 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

Isa 1:21 How is the faithful CITY become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.

Isa 1:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.

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Only a very small remnant of this wicked city would be saved:

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Isa 1:9 Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

Isa 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. [concerning Judah and Jerusalem; vs 1]

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These wicked ones trusted in vain things that God takes no pleasure in to save them:

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Isa 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

Isa 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Isa 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

Isa 1:16 Wash yourself, make yourself clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

Isa 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

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They flattered themselves – as if being the natural children of Abraham afforded them unconditional promises:

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Joh 8:33 They answered Jesus, “We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?”

Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his [John’s] baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

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Contrary to popular teaching in today’s Zionist churches, God puts NO DIFFERENCE between Jews and Gentiles:

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Rom_10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Act_15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Rom_3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. [no land promise mentioned at all in the NT]

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed [singular] were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many [as if to Jews AND Christians]; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

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Abraham’s natural children don’t qualify as the people of God UNLESS they believe in Jesus, and bring forth his righteousness, the fruit of repentance and faith:

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Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not “all Israel”, which are of [natural] Israel:

Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all [Abraham’s] children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil…

Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Joh 8:48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

Joh 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

Joh_15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

Joh 5:23 all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

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Peter identified God’s chosen people ONLY as those who believe in Jesus, who had not been a nation before, as Israel had been, and Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world, fighting bloody worldly wars:

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1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Joh 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

Joh 8:22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.

Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

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As they hated Jesus once they realized he was not a warlord, devoted to saving them from the oppression of Rome, so they hated and killed his apostles, even as they had always hated and killed the prophets:

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Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Mat 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Luke 13:33 Yet I must walk today and tomorrow and the day following. For it cannot be that a prophet perish outside of Jerusalem.

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Which brings us back to Babylon in Revelation:

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Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Rev_11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. (See Isa 1:10, above):

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So now, after comparing scripture with scripture, and seeing what God has called the city where our Lord was crucified, tell me:

WHO IS BABYLON?

Fake Foley, fake parents, fake, emotionless siblings, fake background, picture falls off wall, and neither respond, fake tears, and DUPING DELIGHT is evidenced on these faces.

 

 

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Christian: Smashing Idols, I believe what God’s word says just as you do, yet seeing the unfolding differently obviously. God promise that his people would return back to their homeland. Read Jeremiah 31:10 for it is being fulfilled.

 

‘Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd does his flock’.

 

When he scattered them they lived in Israel. Israel was their homeland. Just as you quoted on John’s wall this scripture…

 

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are NOT all Israel, which are of Israel:
neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. (Romans 9:6-8 KJVA)

 

It isn’t saying all of the bloodline of the Israelites turn away from God, but indeed a lot of them did. The children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

me: Who  are the children of the promise according to scripture, Christian? What in scripture differentiates who is in covenant with God, and who isn’t? Rom 11 says there was a remnant of Jews in the first century who were grafted into the vine, by faith. Faith is confidence, so were they graffed into the vine by confidence in the FLESH, or confidence in Jesus? Jesus said “I AM the vine” in Jn 15:1.  Jesus said he alone is the way to the Father; that no man comes to [enters into covenant with] the Father but by me” in Jn 14:6. John the Baptist warned the Jews not to take any confidence that being born a Jew would resolve their sin, or assure them any place in God’s covenant Mat 3:7-12. Moses had told them that if they refused to hear the messiah, they would be destroyed Acts 3:22-23. Paul said he was an Israelite, and had a lot he could boast about before the Jews, but he counted it all as dung to win Christ’s approval, not man’s.
Php 3:2  Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.[Those who promote circumcision of the flesh]
Php 3:3  For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Php 3:4  Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Php 3:5  Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6  Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Php 3:7  But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9  And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Php 3:10  That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11  If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

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Why don’t we find Paul hoping for, or preaching hope for a Jewish restoration of land ownership in this passage, or anywhere else? He preached the resurrection as the only hope, for both Jews and Gentiles, and that the only way to obtain it is through faith in Jesus Christ as Lord, not by being born a Jew.

The apostles knew that both Christ’s and Daniel’s 70 weeks prophecy had warned of the soon coming destruction of Jerusalem and of the temple (Dan 9:24-27; Mat 23:37-39) (at least during John’s lifetime), and they came to understand that God no longer accepted temple ceremony or animal sacrifice after the temple veil was rent (the day the final acceptable sacrifice was made; the fulfillment of all the OT sacrifices). They realized that the NEW covenant had superseded the old, and that the old covenant had passed away, never to be resurrected again. (2Cor 3; Heb 8)

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Mat 23:37  O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38  Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Joh 8:21  Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins
24 for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Mat 23:39  For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord {Jesus Christ}.
Joh 8:47  He that is of God heareth God’s words [Jn1:14]: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth…

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Christian: In Roman 11:26, it says and so all Israel shall be Saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob. These are they who will be returning back as God has promised.

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me: Absolutely! But Rom 11 says nothing about Jews returning to a portion of land, but returning to God by faith in Jesus. As God promised, all through the OT and the NT, the only acceptable “return” to God is by faith in Jesus!  “All Israel” includes all believing Jews and Gentiles, because God has made all men of one blood [Act 17:26], and there is “no difference”! By faith, “all Israel” has the heavenly hope through covenanting with God by the blood of Jesus Christ!

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Christian: There will be deliverance unto the people of Israel.

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me:  There IS deliverance for the Jews and for the world only through faith in Christ. God is not a Calvinist; he forces no one’s deliverance on them. All land and restoration promises were fulfilled, first in Joshuah’s day, then in Ezra’s day, after the rebuilding. No future rebuilding is prophesied in scripture, no restoration to the land as a nation for either unbelievers or believing Jews.

How utterly false it is to extend a hope of land restoration (even if there WERE such a hope) to unbelieving, sinning Jews, who believe neither Moses nor Jesus! [John 5:46]. God only restored the land to a remnant of Israel who believed his word.  In promising any sort of restoration to wicked Jews who reject Christ, we would be like those who assure Catholics that they are all saved – while they continue praying to Mary and falling down to worship graven images.
I’m Jewish. Am I supposed to pack up and move to Israel? Is that where my deliverance is?

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Christian: Yes, their land was taken away because of their hardness & unrepentant heart. With that said… some Jewish people are not part of the chosen people any longer, but still under rebellion, who are going to use people unto scaring them by the Word of God.  Even people here in the USA do this same tactic. The promise is only due to the faithful ones who believed in what the fulfilling of the prophecy says. [emphasis mine]

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me: But I do believe the prophecy – and its fulfillment — it already happened — during Ezra’s time. The promise is only to those who believe.

But what is the “promise”? Is it not eternal life in an immortal body…to all who practice FAITH in Jesus Christ? God’s promise is the same to all who believe, because he is no respecter of persons.

If I did not believe God’s word: if I denied the fulfillment of Jeremiah and Ezekiel’s prophecies concerning Ezra’s day, and if I ignored what Moses warned concerning the destruction of everyone who rebels against God’s covenant; against all who reject the messiah… if I ignored the warning that John the baptist gave all unbelievers among Abraham’s fleshly seed, {who vainly trusted in the flesh: “We be Abraham’s seed”}, and if I rejected Christ’s warning to Jews in Jn 6:63 – that “the flesh profits nothing”, and if I had rejected the light in Gal 3, Rom 9:6-8, Rom 2:28-29, 2Cor 3, Hebrews, 1Pet 2, and scores of other places throughout scripture, concerning how that God intended to bring into his covenant and save believing Gentiles — I may be as willing as those in Israel today to take up a gun, and go murder and steal land from the heathen in order to fulfill (what in my deceived mind would be) God’s ‘unconditional’ promise of land for the Jews. I might even be deceived into thinking I should now go live in Israel, or I’d not be believing God!

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Christian: My friend was wondering the same thing as you, but he didn’t throw out falsehoods because of lacking to understand. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is over who gets what land and how it’s controlled.

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me: How is Jesus involved in the present Israeli-Palestinian conflict? Is Jesus fighting for Israel so they can kill Palestinians and take the land away from people who have been living there for 2000 years? The land of Israel had only been given to believers of God’s word centuries ago, under the condition that they continue obeying God’s word, not under the condition that they be Jews. I don’t believe that God is today giving that land to Jews (whether they believe in Jesus or not) under the condition that they must believe an ancient fulfilled prophecy applies to them, and that they must fulfill it again.

Is it true that, that, in spite of the fact that Jesus [God] said his servants do not fight {Jn 18:36}, must be harmless as doves {Mat 10:16}, must love their enemies in order to be God’s children {Mat 5:44-48}, and give their cloak to someone who steals their coat {Mat 5:40} –that Jesus is helping Zionist Jews act completely contrary to the gospel so they can control a portion of  land, which is the idol of many? And are we to believe that this is God’s will? Because I’m Jewish, should I join them in this horrible bloodshed, that Zionism might appear to the world to fulfill a prophecy again a second time, which was already fulfilled during Ezra’s time-to a specific group of obedient Jews?

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Christian: Today’s lines largely reflect the outcomes of two of these wars, one waged in 1948 and another in 1967. The 1967 war is particularly important for today’s conflict, as it left Israel in control of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, two territories home to large Palestinian populations for they still live there. It is the Muslims who want that control back. The Jewish people are being attack by Muslims just as the Muslims are attacking people here in the USA.

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me: Had the Jews {or anyone else} attacked and stole land from any people living anywhere else, as they did in 1948, wouldn’t anyone else have certainly retaliated? Are we to believe that the Zionist Jews had a God-given right and privilege to terrorize the Palestinians – because they were Jewish? Is there no racism in supposing such a thing? Should the unsaved Palestinians have been (and will they ever be) content to be attacked, and not retaliate – because it was Jews who attacked them? Should they have understood that it was time to pack up and leave the land, because those (who many imagine to be) “The Children of God” and “God’s chosen people” (who reject Jesus Christ, and for centuries haven’t been in covenant with God because of unbelief) had arrived, and that no one has any right but to defend themselves but the Jews?

Woah, let’s back up here a little and think about that idea –

“The Children of God – God’s chosen people who reject Jesus Christ” … isn’t that an impossible oxymoron?

If the Zionists came and bulldozed your house as you slept, and then shot your brother, then your sisters, then your parents as they tried to flee, what would you say to someone if they accused you of being “antisemitic” if you were seen later throwing rocks at Jewish tanks?

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Christian: So, in defense they (Jews) are fighting back, to which I don’t condone. It is God who will stop this fighting.

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me: But how will God stop this fighting? By giving the Jews power to annihilate the Palestinian Christians, muslims, and everyone else living there? Is it God who started this war in 1948 to fulfill prophecy, or was it the Zionists?

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Christian: I even said that on my wall to a brother “And give the land to the rightful children of God.”

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me: Multiple passages of scripture make clear that a “child of God” is one ONLY BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, NOT BY FLESHLY RACE. Who has bewitched the multitudes into believing and teaching that murderers, thieves, and unbelieving antichrists are the “Children of God?” because of their race?

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Christian: As it is written: Ezekiel 28:25,26 This says the LORD God: When I shall have gathered the ‘House of ISRAEL’

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me: For they are NOT all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. (Romans 9:6-8)

Gal 3:16  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

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“Israel” IS Christ!

And who is “Israel”?

Gal 3:7  Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Gal 3:8  And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. (In CHRIST)

Gal 3:9  So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Gal 3:14  That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit  through faith.

Gal 3:26  For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29  And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

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 My prayer for you is this, Christian: it is, that if you don’t remember, or think anything I’ve said here has any significance, that you will at least acknowledge the great significance of this verse and of verse 14.

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Christian: As it is written: Ezekiel 28:25,26 This says the LORD God: When I shall have gathered the ‘House of ISRAEL’ from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the Nations {heathen}, THEN SHALL THEY DWELL IN THEIR LAND that I have given to My servant, Jacob. AND THEY SHALL DWELL SAFELY IN IT  {therein}, and shall build houses, and plant vineyards; yea, they shall dwell with confidence, when I have EXECUTED judgments upon all those that despise them round about them; and they shall know that I am the LORD their God. (Genesis 12:3; Psalm 41:13)

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As I see it the Prophesy is being fulfilled while the sinners fight among themselves neither will inherit the land. [emphasis mine]

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me:  Amen to what you said, that I emphasized in bold!

Are these unbelieving, sinning Jews safe, because they’re Jews? I agree that both sides [muslims and Zionists] are sinners who will never inherit anything from God but unrest, and if they don’t repent in faith in Jesus, they will all go to hell, Jew or Gentile, for with God there is no respect of persons [Rom 2].

 

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Christian: The way you are coming across to me and this is why I have been silence in case I am misunderstanding you also. Your stance reminds me of the crowd crying out to free ‘Barabbas’.

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me: So I am like those who cried “crucify Jesus”? So if I were to justify the theft and murder guilt of my own race, the Jews, then God would bless me for blessing them?

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Christian: Barabbas was a killer as you know. The Muslims are killers and they are not innocent in this fight for the land.

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me: Are the Zionist Jews innocent, who began terrorizing Palestine in 1948, and have continued doing so ever since?  There are CHRISTIANS in Palestine too! Am I to rejoice as if it’s God who’s destroying Palestine?

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Christian: They put their wives and children in the front line to be killed while the men are hiding in a protected area. The Muslims are playing the victim for their wives and children who are caught in crossfire, in hopes to gain the USA’s help to fight against the Jewish people and to hate them for what it appears to be happening. The Muslims want you to hate all Jewish people that would include you too. Their goal is to destroy all of the Jewish people not to stop once they gain the land.  Do you not believe that once they get this land back they won’t stop killing the Jewish people? You say you are a Jew though you should not be afraid, but you should know they are killing all Jewish people and Christians who are among themselves and all over the world as they too are spread out among the world. It is on their agenda to take over the world. Yes, the innocence on both sides are dying because of this fight. It is a shame and heartbreaking for those who believe what they are doing is right.[emphasis mine]

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me: Amen to that last statement. I know that ISIS plans to take over the world for allah (Satan). They will continue killing not only Jews, but everyone else, including other muslims.
But I also understand from their own leader’s words that the unbelieving/Zionist Jews are also planning to rule the world. They already rule the most powerful nation on earth, and boast about it. They control the “Federal” Reserve bank, which prints dollars backed with nothing, and through that witchcraft they control many kingdoms, crashing economies at will.  I don’t believe they will be content to stop at the genetic cleansing of Palestine. Those who have supported their present genocide will have to reap what they have sewn. It will come right where they live; to their doorstep. Their children will be killed in front of their eyes and they will be greatly oppressed, just as the Palestinians are now being.

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Christian: I hope this helps for I must go to work now any other questions will have to wait. I just read you last message to me. Asking me if I’m ignorant to that which you know to be true. Please, leave that kind of talk away from this or any conversation we may have together in the future.

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me: I’m sorry my question offended you because of the use of the word “ignorant”. I hope you will reconsider this shocking statement: “Your stance reminds me of the crowd crying out to free ‘Barabbas’.

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Christian: I already said I don’t agree with the bloodshed & if you chose to not believe me that is upon you not me.

 I need to go now Shalom

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me: Christian, if you don’t agree with the bloodshed, how then, without bloodshed (unless all those non-Jewish people who lived in Palestine prior to 1948, and all their children just pack up and leave “Israel, the Jewish state”) do you suppose Ezekiel 28:25,26 could be fulfilled?
I believe God’s word was fulfilled in Ezra’s day.  Ezra recorded its fulfillment. They didn’t fight the Assyrian army. God put it into the king of Assyria’s heart to let them rebuild, and they did. The seventy weeks prophecy in Dan 9:25 refers to it:

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Ezr 1:1  Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,
Ezr 1:2  Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.
Ezr 1:3  Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the LORD God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem.

Dan 9:25  Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

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There is ONE way of peace for all, Jew or Gentile. There are not two gospels, there are not two different active covenants; one for Jews, and another for Gentiles. There is ONE hope, ONE way, ONE gospel. Without faith in Jesus, it is impossible to please God or be in covenant with him, or in grace, or inherit any promises.

May the love and light of the gospel permeate your soul and give you and your children peace.

Love in Christ,
Smashing Idols

“Do you think most Jews are willing to obey Jesus’ teachings?”

 

I don’t believe the majority of ANY RACE is willing to obey Jesus’ teachings. I agree with scripture:

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

But, you asked specifically about most of the “Jews”, so I will answer like this:

IF the majority of the “Jews” [if you mean those living in the land called “Israel”] are content to follow no God, or “the tradition of the elders” found in the Jewish Talmud and the Kabbalah, and continue to rejoice in murder and oppression for gain, then no, they will reject the new wine [Jesus Christ], and remain drunken on man-made spirituality unto death. If the majority of them chose to humble themselves, and will allow the Spirit of God to convict their evil hearts, and draw them to repent and to “do the truth”, even at the cost of being hated by their own families, then they WILL come to the light, lay down their lives and their guns, take up the cross, and love their enemies, and follow Christ’s example. There IS no other way for Jews [or those usurping that title] or anyone else in the world to be saved. Jn 14:6; 5:23; 15:23; 2Jn 1:9-11

 

“Do the Jews deserve the homeland that was established in the OT by God?”

 

What did God say about that?

Deu 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
Deu 28:20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.
Deu 28:25 The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.
Deu 28:48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.
Deu 28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
Deu 28:50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:
Deu 28:52 And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
Deu 28:63 And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and YE SHALL BE PLUCKED FROM OFF THE LAND whither thou goest to possess it.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mat 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the
name of the Lord [Jesus the messiah].

Contrary to popular “Christian” Zionist deception, the Jews must believe in Jesus NOW to be in covenant with God, for he honors no other way of hope to ANYONE, outside of faith in Jesus.

Jews don’t get saved by choosing EITHER Moses OR Jesus. Had they believed Moses, they would have believed Jesus, for Moses wrote of him. There IS no more animal sacrifice for sin, and God will not “deal with the Jews” during an imagined future 7 year period of re-instated sacrifices. Scripture offers no hope in a coming messiah for those who reject Jesus. NOW, Before Christ returns, is the only appointed time to be saved, for only now can anyone exibit faith. We are saved by hope, but hope that is seen is not hope Rom 8:24. As it will be too late for any Gentile to believe and be saved when he sees Jesus return, even so, it will also be too late then for any Jew who had rejected him till he returns. EVERY knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord when they see him come, every Jew and every Gentile! The Jews have been given no special promise of salvation based on having been born a Jew. Those who promise Jews salvation at the hour Jesus comes, based on their race – are damnable hereticks; racist false prophets. They are also liars who condemn this truth as “antisemitic”. There could be no greater hatred for the Jewish race than to promise them salvation based on race, for it is a lie that will snare them into hell, as it will everyone else who supports every war Zionism demands.

Isa 1:2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.

Isa 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
Isa 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.
Isa 1:23 Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gift$, and followeth after reward$: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.

Isa 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
Isa 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: [wherever the LORD would have them go live in peace]
Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse [Jesus] and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Those in Israel today are no closer to God now than those in the first century, whom God destroyed because of unbelief. They have made laws against Christ, and against his word, and hate Christians, but see hirelings like John Hagee as “useful idiots”.

Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; HIM SHALL YE HEAR in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that EVERY SOUL WHICH WILL NOT HEAR THAT PROPHET SHALL BE DESTROYED FROM AMONG THE PEOPLE.
Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall ALL THE KINDREDS (nations) of the earth be blessed.
Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

God’s promise of blessing applies to both Jew and Gentile Gal 3:5-29. God is no respecter of persons Acts 10:34-35; Rom 2:11; Ja 2:1-9. Abraham’s seed is CHRIST. God never promised to bless Abraham’s “seeds”, but his “seed”, which is Christ Gal 3:16. If a man of ANY nation is in Christ, HE IS ABRAHAM’S SEED, AND AN HEIR OF THE PROMISE. The new covenant promised no earthly land to anyone, but an heavenly kingdom. God was not ashamed to be called God by those who sought no continuing EARTHLY city. So what does that say for those who steal, murder, and oppress for land? Is God honored to be called THEIR God?

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly THEY SEEK A COUNTRY.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now THEY DESIRE A BETTER COUNTRY, THAT IS, AN HEAVENLY: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 

“Do governments have a responsibility to protect it’s citizens from harm? Is Hamas defending themselves or have they for years been lobbing missiles and rockets upon Israel unprovoked?”

 

Which government do you suppose has the right to respect one race over another, to come into a nation where people have been living for centuries, cut down their fruit and olive trees, bulldoze their houses, and claim the land because their forefathers lived there two centuries earlier, and claim God gives them the ENTITLEMENT to do this wickedness? Which government is free to deceive a foreign nation through media into thinking they have the “right” to call the protesting  majority “terrorists”, whom they have oppressed, murdered, reduced them to refuge status, confined behind walls and occupied by police state power for for 65 years? Do the oppressed have any right to protest genocide, or are they “not a people” because a U.S.- favored gov hates them?

Who do you suppose is unprovoked?

Do you know of any other people who wouldn’t protest what the Jews have done to the Palestinians, had the Jews done the same thing to them?
This is in NO WAY justifying the murderous response that Hamas has given to Israel.

 

“The Jews are hated all over the world by Muslims, Nazis, and others, where do you propose they should live?”

 

The Zionist’s motto USED to be “A land without a people for a people without a land”. Sounds like a good idea, doesn’t it? But they didn’t quite live up to that ideal, did they? Palestine was not a land without a people. The Zionists intended from the beginning to go in and kick every Arab out, or put them behind an “Iron wall” until they annihilated them all, according to Zionist leader’s own words. If people would simply research the history of Zionism, the facts are readily available, but most are content to follow the crowd, believe the media, AIPAC and CUFI, and remain in darkness, for fear of being labeled “anti-Semitic”. I speak this, a Jew myself.  As you might have already guessed, I’m not afraid of being  slandered with either the anti-semitc” label, or the “self-hating Jew” label. Both are merely a shallow joke, cleverly designed to gain sympathy for the evils of Zionism, which only a fool refuses to discern.The Zionists themselves admit this, and have boasted of its effectiveness.

Would you approve of the Zionist Jews coming to your state with their present murderous entitlement mindset, and appreciate getting herded into a concentration camp, where everyday life is impossible, so “God’s chosen people” could fulfill their dreams and be “blessed”, while you suffer the loss of your children and everything else? Do you really believe their ethnic cleansing will stop in the land of Israel, when the Zionist leaders have stated global aspirations?

In response to the video that claims “a nation becomes sick when the Jews leave” -,, any nation will suffer when a substantial number of its productive citizens leave. But to present that fact as if it’s exclusively due to Jewish departures is obviously racist. That is the theme of that video, and I, as a Jew, find it quite sickening.

I am alarmed at the increasing Muslim population in the U.S. and in other free nations, because the “peaceful” Muslims don’t stand up against the violence of the militant ones, who actually obey the Koran’s anti-christian teachings. Neither does the sleeping U.S. gov make sufficient efforts to protect the American people from this rising threat, but spends billions aiding their enemies. This gov has been for years robbing taxpayers of billions – only to protect itself. Let the rest eat cake…let them entertain themselves with all the demons of Hollywood, “music”, health “care”, and the brainwashing media, denominations, and let them think they have a say in elections by allowing them to continue voting for the same corrupt political parties, [which both continue toward a NWO] – until they’re robbed of their last worthless “federal” reserve debt note, so that they are no longer useful-then they will be eventually be eliminated like the Gazans are being now.

The wicked reap what they sow. American “Christians” have forgotten God and buildeth up the synagogue of Satan with blood.

It appears the threat of obedient Islamics will grow so great worldwide, that only Christ’s second [final] coming will eliminate it. Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus.

MOST of this string is copied here, except for some unintentionally missed “see mores” of some comments, minimally edited for spelling and punctuation.
“I can’t stomach this
ALL COMMENTS I HAVE ADDED AFTER THE STRING ARE SHOWN BETWEEN BRACKETS  [as so]

Living Faith shared a link at FB in NOV 2013
November 28, 2013 · Edited

CAUTION: Before watching the other videos of the Smocks posted here, be aware THEY CONTAIN VERY EXPLICIT FILTHINESS.
Sister Cindy, wife of Brother Jed Smock, at the University of Central Missouri, April 16, 2012
Sister Cindy admonishes college “whores.” She also talks about masturbation. Her husband Jed listens, as her grandaughter sits by her, reading a picture book.
1Like · · Promote · Share

Jesse Morrell, Jed Smock and John Moore like this.
Jennifer Everett: NOT how a Christian woman is supposed to behave.
November 28 at 2:47pm · Like · 2
Paul Mitchell: SO WHAT DO YOU EXPECT WHEN THE WORD OF GOD IS LOST TO THE PENTECOSTAL LOONIES…AND THERE ARE MANY MORE INFESTING THE CAMPUSES: MEN AND WOMEN!
November 28 at 3:53pm · Unlike · 2
Paul Mitchell: (AND YES, I DO KNOW HER…AND HER HUSBAND)
November 28 at 4:37pm · Like
Watch Man: Absolutely shameful, her actions shall be judged accordingly!

Matthew 6:5
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues AND IN THE CORNERS OF THE STREETS THAT THEY MAY BE SEEN OF MEN. Verily I say unto you, THEY HAVE THEIR REWARD.

Isaiah 42:1-2
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. HE SHALL NOT CRY, NOR LIFT UP, NOR CAUSE HIS VOICE TO BE HEARD IN THE STREET.

Matthew 12:18-20
Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. HE SHALL NOT STRIVE, NOR CRY; NEITHER SHALL ANY MAN HEAR HIS VOICE IN THE STREETS. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
November 28 at 8:48pm · Like · 1
John McGlone: Watch Man I would not defend Cindy or Jed’s behaviors in the open air, but…

1. she is preaching not praying
November 28 at 11:33pm · Unlike · 3
John McGlone: 2. Isaiah is talking about the Messiah specifically not Cindy Lasseter Smock

3. Matt 12 same issue. If you are going to criticize someone’s open air work make the arguments valid please, thanks.
November 28 at 11:35pm · Like · 1
Leeanne Olliges: “Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane” 1 Tim 1:9.
The purpose of Jed and Cindy’s campus ministry is to expose sin, not necessarily to preach the Gospel. Most students will ignore typical preachers. This gets their attention and gets them to think about the sin in their lives. Their work is invaluable in my opinion.
November 29 at 12:12am · Edited · Like · 2
Paul Thomas: Virgins go to heaven and everyone else goes to hell. That is not the gospel. The gospel is that there is salvation in Christ for all who come to Christ in repentance and faith in Christ and Christ alone
November 29 at 10:30am · Edited · Unlike · 3
John McGlone: I disagree Leeanne Olliges, [since] this is from Jed’s website:
Our purpose is to declare the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the college and university students of America and the world.
The Gospel is rarely heard in all the antics that Jed and Cindy Lasseter Smock preach. They declare they are above correction just as many of the older preachers do as well. Their style, verbage, filthy story telling, cursing, etc. are a reproach to Christ and the Gospel. I admit that I have been influenced by them and many others in things I have said and done in the open air to my shame.
Here is a good video on the subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GztG9B_l5yg
10 PITFALLS of the Open Air Preacher
In this video, Kerrigan Skelly of PinPoint Evangelism http://www.pinpointevangel…See More
November 29 at 10:49am · Unlike · 4 · Remove Preview
Leeanne Olliges: John McGlone, a few passages come to mind as I listen to Bro Skelly and think about the ministry of the Smocks. “Do I not hate those who hate you, LORD, and abhor those who are in rebellion against you?” (Ps. 139:21). Bro. Skelly said, “only God has the right to hate the sinner”. I think the balance is that we love the sinner enough to warn them of the wrath to come but hate their evil ways. “Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell”? (Mt. 23:33) These were very inflammatory and offensive words spoken by Jesus. The very things Bro. Skelly says not to say to sinners. Personally, I have been on campus when the Smocks were preaching several times and have seen good fruit and conviction from some in the crowd. Usually, when the crowd thins, there are several who stay around to ask serious questions and some have been saved and repented. It seems strange to me to that you and Bro Skelly are so confident in your assertions that God is not using the Smocks. I would encourage you to be careful in criticizing them. Blessings
November 29 at 7:25pm · Like · 2
Jesse Morrell: I really enjoyed that video of Sister Cindy Lasseter Smock preaching. Jed Smock and Cindy have been a real blessing to me. Their ministry has greatly inspired and blessed me and I’ve learned so much from them.

This last campus preaching tour I felt lead to preach more against whores, whoremongers, and all of the whorish behavior that goes on at the university campuses. We need more preachers who will preach against it and call it what it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnLNwy52B_g

One of the pitfalls of open air preachers that I have seen is divisiveness. In the open air community this group won’t preach with that group, that group won’t preach with this group, etc. That was one of the first things that I learned about the open air preachers. I try to overlook our differences and focus on our agreements and similarities.
Documentary on Brother Jed Smock – Campus Ministry USA
SUBSCRIBE to OpenAirOutreach: http://www.youtube.com/subscription_center?add_use…See More
November 30 at 12:21am · Edited · Like · 3 · Remove Preview
John McGlone: Leeanne Olliges no one is above criticism except Jesus Christ Himself. I would recommend you be careful applying Psalm poetic literature to how the New Testament Holy Spirit believer. Jesus instructed us to love our enemies, not hate them.
November 30 at 12:23am · Like · 1
Jesse Morrell: I think that we should hate sinners in the same way that God does – He abhors them because of their corrupt character. When I am in the open air and I see how wicked those people act and behave when they hear the gospel, for example when homosexuals start kissing in front of everyone, at that moment I feel the same holy hatred that God feels towards them.

God’s hatred is not the opposite of love or a lack of love, but a holy abhorrence. You can love and hate sinners at the same time – God does. God is benevolent towards them while at the same time He is disgusted with them because of their behavior.

http://biblicaltruthresources.wordpress.com/…/does-god…/

If we do not hate sinners the same way that God does, then we are ungodly. [Let JM apply this to us who hate the lies, heresies, and filthiness used by some street preachers. Isn’t Jesse’s lengthy argument here (that a godly person must be disgusted at the sinner because of his sin, or he is ungodly) amazingly IRONIC, while he SUPPORTS the Smock’s filthy language/PERVERSE “PREACHING”?? ] We are to be imitators of God in everything. His heart should be our heart. His character should be our character. To say that only God can hate sinners is not right as the Bible says you that love the Lord hate that which is evil. Sinners are evil. But the type of hatred God has for them, which we should have for them, is a holy disgust because of their sin and not a lack of benevolence or good-will.
Does God Love or Hate Sinners? Is God’s Love Conditional or Unconditional? Jesse Morrell
biblicaltruthresources.wordpress.com
DOES GOD LOVE OR HATE SINNERS? Jesse Morrell http://www.OpenAirOutreach.com This was fr…See More
November 30 at 12:27am · Like · 4 · Remove Preview
Jesse Morrell: From the article:

“Notice that in Ps. 11:5 it says that God’s “soul” hateth the wicked. The word soul refers to His “emotion, passion” (Brown-Driver-Briggs). Thus God’s hatred for sinners is an emotional disgust. And in Lev. 20:23 the word used to say that God “abhorred” them means “to be grieved, loathe, abhor, feel a loathing or abhorrence.”

I know what it is like to have that type of hatred. When I go out to the streets and campuses and preach to sinners, the things they do in front of me is disgusting. Lesbians will start stripping and making out, the crowds start chanting Hail Satan, etc. They are truly an abomination in my sight. Nevertheless, I have benevolence for them and preach the gospel of God’s love and mercy to them. As disgusting as they are, I have no ill-will. I want them to repent and be saved.”

http://biblicaltruthresources.wordpress.com/…/does-god…/
Does God Love or Hate Sinners? Is God’s Love Conditional or Unconditional? Jesse Morrell
biblicaltruthresources.wordpress.com
DOES GOD LOVE OR HATE SINNERS? Jesse Morrell http://www.OpenAirOutreach.com This was fr…See More
November 30 at 12:28am · Like · 4 · Remove Preview
John McGlone: Jesse Morrell where does the Bible say that Jesus instructs His disciples to hate the wicked? If you could limit your references to NT direct teaching of Jesus on the matter I think it would bring clarity to the issue. I have no problem with God having hatred towards the sinners. But, for us the old trite statement, “Love the sinner, and hate the sin.” would certainly apply to us in regards to the lost. I read your articles and I am missing the instruction where we are to hate the enemies of God.
November 30 at 12:32am · Edited · Like · 1
Jesse Morrell: Ephesians 5 says that we are to be imitators of God. Jesus said that we are to be perfect as God is perfect. Peter said we are to be holy as He is holy. In other words, we should have the same heart and character that God does. We should not be ungodly in anything.
God’s hatred is not a maliciousness or a vindictiveness or an ill-will. God’s hatred is simply a holy abhorrence or disgust. Any godly person will be disgusted when they look upon an unholy crowd doing evil things. That is the type of hatred that we are supposed to have – which is godly. But even though we are disgusted with sinners because of their wickedness, we should love them nonetheless. We should have the same benevolence or love that God has for them – that despite how abhorrent they are to us (hatred) we want them to repent and be saved (love). Hating sinners is not the opposite of loving them.
November 30 at 12:36am · Edited · Like · 3
Jesse Morrell: “Hate the sin and love the sinner” is a false dichotomy. The sin is not an object that has existence apart from the sinner. What is sin but the sinners own choice, will, intention, heart, etc. The sin is not separate from the sinner. To hate the sin is to hate part of the sinner himself.
November 30 at 12:37am · Like · 5
John McGlone: where does the Bible say that Jesus instructs His disciples to hate the wicked
November 30 at 12:45am · Like
Jesse Morrell: I think a better question to ask is, Where does the Bible say that Jesus instructed His disciples to be ungodly? Where did He say we should not be like God?
November 30 at 12:46am · Edited · Like
John McGlone: No, it’s a pretty good question, why not answer it?
November 30 at 12:46am · Like · 1
Jesse Morrell: I did answer it
November 30 at 12:47am · Like · 1
Jesse Morrell: Repost: “Ephesians 5 says that we are to be imitators of God. Jesus said that we are to be perfect as God is perfect. Peter said we are to be holy as He is holy. In other words, we should have the same heart and character that God does. We should not be ungodly in anything.
God’s hatred is not a maliciousness or a vindictiveness or an ill-will. God’s hatred is simply a holy abhorrence or disgust. Any godly person will be disgusted when they look upon an unholy crowd doing evil things. That is the type of hatred that we are supposed to have – which is godly. But even though we are disgusted with sinners because of their wickedness, we should love them nonetheless. We should have the same benevolence or love that God has for them – that despite how abhorrent they are to us (hatred) we want them to repent and be saved (love). Hating sinners is not the opposite of loving them.”
November 30 at 12:47am · Like · 1
John McGlone: The Bible does not instruct his followers to be ungodly. [AMEN, John. Remind the Smocks]
November 30 at 12:47am · Unlike · 1
Jesse Morrell: If we should not hate what God hates, we are ungodly.
November 30 at 12:47am · Like · 2
Jesse Morrell: We should hate what God hates, or else we are ungodly. We should hate with the same type of hatred that God has.
November 30 at 12:48am · Like · 2
John McGlone: You mean if we should not hate WHO God hates we are ungodly.
November 30 at 12:48am · Like
Jesse Morrell: Jesus always encouraged His disciples to be like God. Be ye therefore perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect. Everything God does is perfect – even His hatred is perfect.
November 30 at 12:48am · Like · 1
John McGlone: I agree God’s hatred is perfect.
November 30 at 12:49am · Like
Jesse Morrell: Yes, if we are not disgusted with those WHO God is disgusted with, we are ungodly.
November 30 at 12:49am · Edited · Like · 3
Jesse Morrell: If we should not have the same hatred that God has, are there any other areas that we should not be like God in?
November 30 at 12:51am · Like · 1
Jesse Morrell: Is not God our perfect example in everything?
November 30 at 12:51am · Like · 3
Tracy Bays: We do not have any right to hate people. We are not God. Being godly does not mean we become God.

We can hate the sin. Sin is a behavior. We hate the behavior. That is Holy hatred. We cannot hate people. Since that itself is a sin.

Matthew 5:43-44 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

I do not hate people. No real Christian does.
November 30 at 12:52am · Edited · Unlike · 10
John McGlone: That would be perfect!
November 30 at 12:52am · Like
Jesse Morrell: What kind of hatred are you guys talking about? Again, I am not talking about maliciousness or ill-will but abhorrence or disgust.
We do not have the right to be ungodly in any area of our life. It is not a sin to be an imitator of God in everything. I hate people with the same type of hatred that God has for them – an abhorrence or disgust because of their sin. Every real Christian does.
November 30 at 12:53am · Like · 1
Jesse Morrell: If we are disgusted with the sin, how much more should we be disgusted with the one who causes the sin!

There is not a single area in your life that you should not be godly in. God is our perfect example to follow in everything. God is not wrong for hating sinners. God is not sinning.
November 30 at 12:55am · Edited · Like · 1
John McGlone: How does this verse fit into your view?

Matthew 5:43-44 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
November 30 at 12:56am · Like · 1
Jesse Morrell: The hatred that is forbidden is the opposite of love, which is evidenced by the fact that Jesus made an antithesis between love and hatred in Matt. 5:43. The type of hatred that is forbidden is ill-will or maliciousness, vindictiveness, etc. He is not talking about an emotional disgust or abhorrence because of their sin.
November 30 at 12:57am · Like · 1
Jesse Morrell: God blesses those who curse him. God loves His enemies. He does not hate them in the sense of being malicious or having ill-will. But the same God who loves His enemies also hates all workers of iniquity. That type of hatred is disgust or abhorrence because of their sin.
November 30 at 12:58am · Like · 2
John McGlone: Will God have malice for the sinner when they are being thrown into hell?
November 30 at 5:59pm · Edited · Like
Jesse Morrell: Absolutely not. God is a benevolent being and even damning the wicked is a benevolent act.
November 30 at 12:59am · Like · 4
Jesse Morrell: You think God has that type of hatred for people?
November 30 at 1:00am · Like · 1
Jesse Morrell: God’s hatred is not a lack of benevolence or the opposite of benevolence. It is abhorrence or detestation, which we too should have for the wicked.
November 30 at 1:00am · Like · 1
Jesse Morrell: If God’s hatred for sinners is malice, how does this verse fit into your theology? [?]

“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.” Matt. 5:44-45

or John 3:16 for that matter. Remember, John 3:16 was written after Ps. 5:5. And God does not change. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
November 30 at 1:02am · Like · 1
Tracy Bays I can be disgusted by someone’s actions. I can be disgusted by their words. If I somehow was able to see their thoughts. I could be disgusted by that.

Yet, you are equating disgust, with hatred. Then using that to find some sort of grounds to hate people. That is complete error.

God is not wrong for hating sinners. If you think you can also hate sinners, then you are wrong. We are not in the position of God. God has the right to hate sinners.

Sometimes simple logic can go too far. Please show a clear didactic verse that says we can specifically have any type of hatred for people. I have shown one that is didactic, and does specifically say we cannot hate our enemies. We are to love them.

Logic, and philosophy should never take the driving seat, over clear didactic Scripture verse.

If you are making a case for a Christian to have grounds to hate any person, then I am here to tell you, that you are in grave error.
November 30 at 1:02am · Unlike · 6
Jesse Morrell: Tracy, the Hebrew word for hatred as applied to God is not malice but abhorrence or detestation. God is disgusted with sinners because of their sinning. We too should be disgusted with them. But we should not “hate” people in the worldly sense of the term – having malice. But we should hate in the Biblical sense of the term – disgust or detestation.

To say that we should not be like God in any area of our life is complete error. God is not wrong for hating (abhorring) sinners and we would not be wrong for imitating Him in this. If you think that you can be ungodly in any area of your life, then you are wrong. We are to be like Him in all things.

Nothing could be a more “clear didactic verse” than “be ye imitators of God.” Or “be ye therefore holy as your Father in Heaven is holy.” These verses specifically say that we are to be like God in everything.

Please show me just one clear didactic verse that says we can be ungodly, or that we should not be like God in any area of our life? We are to love sinners, like God does. And we are to hate sinners, like God does. We are not to hate in the sense that the devil does.

If you are making a case for a Christian to be ungodly in any area of their life, then I am here to tell you, that you are in grave error. [Ray: The irony of this Smock supporter is simply amazing!]
November 30 at 1:08am · Like · 4
Jesse Morrell: “I can be disgusted by someone’s actions. I can be disgusted by their words. If I somehow was able to see their thoughts. I could be disgusted by that.”

So you just admitted that you hate sinners in the same sense that I am contending for. To hate the sin is to hate the sinner, because the sinner is the cause of the sin and the sin does not exist separate from or independent of the sinner. If you are disgusted with what they do, you are disgusted with them, because they are what they do. A man is his character. [To be consistant with such logic, Jesse must admit that to love the sinner is to love his sin; to not be disguted with his sin is to love that sin.]
November 30 at 1:09am · Edited · Like · 1
Tracy Bays: Look. I have made the same error myself. My very first preach was on OSU. I said “I love what God loves! I hate what God hates! God hates sinners, and so do I!”
Brother Kerrigan had corrected me. I received that correction. I had over-simplified a thought. It seemed logical to me. yet, when clear Scripture showed I was wrong. I corrected my thinking.

Scripture should shape our thinking. We need to be careful not to shape Scripture by our thinking. One way is exegetical, and the other is eisegetical. There is a way that seems right to us, yet the end thereof is death. [Amen Tracey!]
November 30 at 1:12am · Like · 3
Jesse Morrell: You need to correct your thinking again Tracy. And it sounds like Kerrigan does to. Your theology is not above correction. We should be godly in everything we do. A lot of confusion comes from thinking that hatred is malice or ill-will – the opposite of benevolence. This is not the case. Hatred in the godly sense of the term is disgust or abhorrence. Hatred in that sense is not a sin but is godly. [Ray: So then those who aren’t disgusted at hearing a man and his wife using profanity, telling filthy stories, and using filthy illustrations to shock a crowd and get attention are as ungodly as that couple is…right, Jesse?]
November 30 at 1:14am · Like · 3
Jesse Morrell: I would not say in the open air, “God hates sinners, and so do I!” because that would cause confusion. Sinners do not understand the type of hatred that God has. They think of hatred as malice. Neither God nor any Christian has malice towards sinners.
November 30 at 1:14am · Edited · Like · 4
Jesse Morrell: The type of hatred that is the opposite of benevolence is malevolence; which is not an attribute of God but an attribute of the devil. And nobody should have that type of hatred.
November 30 at 1:16am · Edited · Like · 2
Jesse Morrell: Gotta go to bed. Last thought, it can never be a sin to imitate God. It is always a sin not to.
November 30 at 1:16am · Like · 1
John Moore I think if you would better understand “Moral Government Theology” then as Jesse says you will better understand ” God is a benevolent being and even damning the wicked is a benevolent act.”

And we can “hate” the sinner and yet love Him as God does at the same time… Is not Jesse loving those sinners that he is preaching to? Is Jesse not the best friend that they have ever had by sacrificing his time and money to come and offer them the opportunity to be saved from their wickedness?

The very foundation of “Moral Government Theology” is based on the “Love of God”… On the “love of God” from Him toward all of us…. and on the “love of God” from us toward Him… So if we are to be like Christ and “walk as He walked” we will be motivated by benevolence and choose the highest good of even those we and God hate…
November 30 at 1:25am · Like · 3
Tracy Bays Jesse now you are seeming to say that unless I hate sinners, then I am ungodly. I have not lost sight of your definition of having disgust for people, as being a type of hatred. That is what you are saying.

I am disgusted with how sinners live their lives. I am also disgusted with how I used to live mine. I do not have a disgust/hatred toward the person. I have it toward their behavior. Sin is not part of the sinner. Sin is only the behavior of the sinner. Even when we are speaking of thoughts. Thoughts, are also behaviors. Just because something is a thought, does not mean it is part of the person. A thought is the product of the person. The invention of the person. Not the person themselves.

You seem to be lumping sin together with the person themselves. As if it were somehow part of their soul, or something. We know the body is not the person. It is just a robot, which is operated by the person. The true person is the soul. That is who we are. We are souls. In the Bible spirit is equated to life. Our spirit, is the life that animates our body. When every person dies, their spirit returns to God. The breath of life, is the spirit of the person. So of the three basic components of a person, the person themselves, are the soul. The sin never is part of the soul. A wicked soul will produce, or manufacture sin. That is why the Bible refers to them as workers of iniquity. Sin must be worked. It is not the person themselves.

So sin is always separate in that way. I can hate the products, manufacture, and work of a sinner. It is the effect, of a cause. I can hate the effect, and not hate the cause. I can have disgust for the effect, and not the cause. Vengeance does not belong to me. It belongs to God, and He will repay every soul that refuses to repent. All souls belong to God. Not a single soul belongs to me. When you get down to it, my own soul does not even belong to me. That too belongs to God. He has the right to hate my soul, if I decide to sin against Him. I am to love myself, and also love others in the same way that I love myself. Self hatred is sin, and also so is hatred of other souls.
November 30 at 1:28am · Edited · Like · 3
Jesse Morrell: It doesn’t make any sense to say that you are disgusted with their behavior but not with them. Take a child molester as an example. If you are disgusted with the act of molesting children, how much more should you be disgusted with the molester who causes the act? God is disgusted, not merely with the action but with the person who causes the action.

The essence of their sin is not a mere physical action, but their heart itself. The essence of sin is their sinful heart. Their heart is who they actually are. To be disgusted with their sin is to be disgusted with their heart, and to be disgusted with their heart is to be disgusted with them.

If you are not disgusted with their heart then you are not disgusted with their sin, because their sin is their heart.

But if you are disgusted with their heart, then you are disgusted with the person themselves, because the person is their heart.
November 30 at 1:31am · Edited · Like · 6
John Moore Well stated Jesse Morrell [Moore IRONY! Moore supports Smock too, as you will see.]
November 30 at 1:31am · Like · 3
Tracy Bays So you are teaching me that sin is part of the constitution of the person. You have lumped them together into one; inseparable. You don’t see the error in that?

I am disgusted by the behavior of child molestation. I am even disgusted at the idea, that someone would even allow that to creep into their mind. That they would even have such thoughts. Yet, I would show love to that child molester, by telling him he needs to repent. I would even tell him what he needs to do, in order to rightly repent. Even though I am disgusted, and hate his thoughts, and actions. I would still care for his soul. Even if he refused to repent. I would make the attempt. Of course God hates his soul. The soul belongs to God. God has ownership of the soul of that molester. God has the right to hate the soul, that belongs to Him. The soul does not belong to me. His soul, is not my property. I have no right to hate souls, which belong to God. Vengeance is not mine, it is the Lord’s. I will give place for wrath. The molester will heap coals of wrath, on his own head. My hatred, or disgust of that soul is not required of me. Since God can see my soul, and my thoughts. I do not want to think anything that displeases Him. Jesus tells me to not hate my enemies, for a reason. Jesus tells me to love my enemies for a reason. He does not want to see hatred for other souls, within me. If I did that, then He would be disgusted from my behavior. It is not ungodly to refuse any type of hatred for souls. It is godly to obey the commands of Jesus. Even the angel did not rebuke Satan. Why didn’t he? Why didn’t that angel revile Satan as a person? Was the angel also ungodly? I believe he was leaving place for wrath. I believe he was surrendering all vengeance over to God. I believe he was following orders.

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

You should get some sleep. I will be awake all night. I am about the start a 3rd shift job, and I am adjusting my sleep schedule, accordingly.
November 30 at 2:02am · Like
Kerrigan Skelly Jesse said, “One of the pitfalls of open air preachers that I have seen is divisiveness.”
Jesse, there is nothing inherently wrong with “divisiveness”. Divisiveness can be good. Are you saying that “divisiveness” is always a bad thing or a “pitfall”? What if a preacher is doing things that don’t bring Glory to God? What if a preacher is obviously in some kind of sin? Surely there are open air preachers out there that you are “divisive” towards, right?
November 30 at 2:39am · Unlike · 1
Jed Smock If we can only hate the behavior of the sinner and not the sinner himself, then it would seem to follow that we can only love the righteous acts of a Christian but not love the Christian himself.
November 30 at 5:28am · Like · 4
Jed Smock I usually speak of God’s hatred and our hatred towards the sinner as a righteous indignation.
November 30 at 5:28am · Like · 2
Jed Smock By the way what is it specifically in Sister Cindy’s preaching which is objectionable? [as if Jed has no clue? This is a dishonest question] Remember this is the attention getting “opening act” of hours of preaching by the two of us in the open-air. The day culminated in an indoor formal debate with a graduate student on the question, “Can one be moral without being a Christian?” There must have been a few hundred who attended the debate. I can assure you that the gospel was preached that day by both Cindy and me. Admittedly, the emphasis was on the law to the careless sinners, because “the law was our schoolmaster bringing us unto Christ.” We are faithful to our calling. I would venture to say that students have heard more gospel from me over the last forty years than anyone of whom I know, if by the gospel we mean the death and resurrection of Jesus. Even if I only spoke fifteen minutes a day specifically on Christ’s death and resurrection (usually much more time than 15 minutes) out of my typical 4 to 5 hour preaching sessions, more people have heard more gospel that day from me than anyone else on campus. I carry my staff crucifix [graven image] as reminder that Christ died on account of our sins, that salvation is available to them that believe in his atoning blood. Throughout these forty years I have missed relatively few school days. That adds up to a lot of gospel preaching.

[Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent

Psa 40:4 Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.]

November 30 at 6:01am · Like · 4
Kerrigan Skelly Jed, what do you mean by “attention getting ‘opening act'”? Where does the Bible say or model that we do something (other than preach God’s Word), in order to get the attention of sinners? I know of not one example or command in the New Testament, to do such a thing. Just because the end of your preaching may have been good (preaching the Word of God to many students), doesn’t mean that the means by which you gather the “many students” was good or Godly. The end does not always justify the means…
November 30 at 1:05pm · Unlike · 7
Stacey Vroman Amen Bro. Kerrigan Skelly!!!!!!
November 30 at 1:10pm · Unlike · 4
Tracy Bays Jed your vain philosophy is at the root of this [and all of his] FALSE TEACHING. You have no clear didactic verse on the matter. You have nothing to point to, and say. “See God WANTS us to hate sinners also!” This is COMPLETELY coming from your own vain reasoning. What you say seems logical. It seems right to you.

Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Sure it seems right to you. Yet, it is not right according to Scripture. Jesus tells us to not hate our enemies. Instead we are to love them.

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Luke 6:27-28 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

Am I to assume that Jesse is getting this teaching from you? His argument is that we cannot just hate the sins, since we cannot separate the sin from the sinner. If we hate the sin, then we must also hate the sinner. Would you agree this line of thinking comes from you?
[“Bro” Cope said he respects Jed Smock more than any man on earth. I am afraid this same man-worship is prevalent in other open air preachers for Smock, as it is by many Catholics for their pope, and by many, both Catholics and protestants, toward Billy Graham.]
There are many philosophical problems with this flawed logic. It assumes that sin is an entity, or component. It assumes that sin is a part of the constitution of the person. Not necessarily the physical constitution, meaning the body. Yet, the soul, which is immaterial in itself, is a part of our constitution. To say the sin is not separable from the soul, is to suggest it is part of the soul. Sin is only a behavior. Nothing else. It is not even an “it”. Sin does not exist in the material, or immaterial sense. Sin is an event that takes place in time. It is a rebellious event that the soul manufactures, or works, in a particular time span.

Even if I were to ignore the logical flaws, which I cannot. I supersede my logic with clear didactic Scripture. Is it impossible to hate only the behavior, and not the person? Why then does Jesus tell John that the church of Ephesus hated the deeds of the Nicolaitans?

Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

If God really wants us to hate people, this would have the the perfect opportunity to inform the church at large that hating sinners is OK for US to do. I suppose God messed it up, according to your logic. Please don’t waste my time by getting upset at me for this type of reasoning. We all use this reasoning with the sinners, and also with false theologies. We tell Calvinists all the time, “Well if Calvinism is really the Gospel, then why didn’t God record any preaching with Calvinism in it? Why didn’t Jesus teach Calvinism, when He had the chance?” This is a valid form of argumentation. If something was SO IMPORTANT, like this is, then God would have clearly said something on the topic. If I had no clear things to the opposite, I would be forced to say it was not Salvational in nature. Yet, since I DO have clear verses, and I can dig up some unclear verses, that support it by implication. Since what I have is on solid Scriptural ground, then I can show that your teaching will condemn you. This is Salvational.

As far as this Gospel preaching of Cindy,
[Tracy, you call this, in this video, which she was rattling off – “the GOSPEL”?? Where is your discernment, man? She’s not preaching, she’s heckling.]
I cannot say there is anything objectionable in it. [HUH?! Pro_21:4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.]
Pro_21:27 The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination: how much more, when he bringeth it with a wicked mind?
I do think she overuses the word “whore”. I have used the word when it was needed. She is just throwing it around. She is not sinning by doing this, as far as I am able to see. I cannot see the heart. I would say her prior cussing that she never repented of, and you seem to endorse is what would condemn her and her preaching. It would also condemn you as well, for that matter, until you repent of your wicked filthy hearts, [for until] then you will not likely produce any sound doctrinal teaching, other than the stuff you learned prior. Since your heart is carnal, and devoid of the Holy Spirit, you will continue to pervert and distort God’s Word. Yet, I still love you. Like Holy Hubert might have said, assuming he would have been impartial, “I love you you filthy dirty rotten sinners! Now REPENT!” If you would only apply what you tell the sinners to do to yourself. Then you might repent of the cussing you endorse. Also the perverted sexual editorials, you have personally given in your preaching. Your editorials could very easily be published in Penthouse magazine, and people might even masterbate to your stories. More fruit of your rotten filthy heart. I do not count you as a Brother, and I would not even sit down and eat a sandwich with you. Not until you repent.

1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
November 30 at 1:43pm · Edited · Unlike · 3
Jed Smock: Kerrigan, Cindy is preaching God’s Word. It is Speech 101 that you must get the attention of your audience, if you are going to give a speech. Actually, I learned that from Mr. Marcinko, when I was a junior in high school. I am not particularly interested in speaking to the birds, squirrels and wind, although one never knows where the wind will carry his voice.

[see Kerrigan’s correct reply to such foolishness below!]

1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co 2:12 Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 We don’t speak the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but that which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:1 And brethren, when I came to you, I came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1Co 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, [such as the attention-getting method taught in “speech 101”] but in the power of God.
1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Co 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
November 30 at 1:35pm · Like · 3
Tracy Bays: Also we are to love every soul. Even the sinning souls. Our love of souls is not to be based on their behavior, good or bad. Their behavior should only dictate how we minister to these souls. I do not love a righteous soul, because they are righteous. I love them, because I am called to love. I love them from obedience. Not the way the world loves, which is by favorable treatment. Sure I want them to be righteous. I want that for them because I love God, and I know it pleases Him. I also love their soul, and it is good for them to be righteous. So, I want them to be righteous, because of my righteous love. Yet, it is not founded on their acts of the will. That is shifting sands. My love is founded on the solid rock of the commands of Jesus! So to say we must hate sin and sinners, because we also love righteousness, and the righteous-that is a flawed statement. It excludes the real reason for us to love.

I have already clearly stated it. I do not own a single soul, not even my own. I have no right to hate a single soul. I have also been the source of God’s hatred. It is possible I may be that source again. I still have freewill, and in the midst of a fierce battle, I could possibly choose to hate God, and be the source of His wrath. I do not want that, but I can see the possibility of it. I must cleave tightly onto Jesus to prevent that. So I have no right to hate souls, and have been ordered to love souls. The behavior only dictates the type of ministry I give toward them. This is all part of perfection.
November 30 at 1:35pm · Unlike · 5
Tracy Bays Not to mix [mince] words. I will apply this to Jed Smock. Nothing you could try to teach me in your present state will be received by me. I am correcting you. God resists you in your pride.

Psalm 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
November 30 at 1:46pm · Unlike · 1
Kerrigan Skelly: Jed, I have not even made mention of Cindy or the video in the original post. I am simply responding to your comments. I took a speech class in college, but what does that have to do with preaching God’s Word? The weapons of my warfare are not carnal, but spiritual. Isn’t the Word of God sharper than any double edged sword, dividing soul and spirit, bone and marrow, discerning the hearts of men? Isn’t a man, preaching the Word of God under the anointing of the Holy Spirit enough to “draw a crowd”? And if it isn’t, maybe that day I should just pass out tracts, hold banners/signs, witness 1-2-1, or preach to small crowds of people. There’s nothing wrong with those things…unless you have the mindset of “no big crowd = failure”, which I see nowhere in the Scriptures.

So, your position is basically a pragmatic one? You do it “because it works”…because it “gets you a crowd or a bigger crowd”? Where is the line drawn? Can I tell dirty stories, or read out of a Playboy magazine, to draw a crowd? Can I describe the act of sex in explicit details – to draw a crowd? Can I make fun of people to draw a crowd? Can I punch someone in the face to draw a crowd? Is there a line to draw concerning pragmatism? I mean, as long as the end is good- preaching the Bible – are any means ok? If there is a line to draw, where is it and where do we get it from?

I’m sorry, but I don’t see pragmatism promoted in the Scriptures…not even a little bit. I also don’t see doing an “attention getting opening act” before preaching the Bible in order to “have a crowd to preach to”- in the Bible. And since you provided not one Scripture example or command to do such, I can only assume (at this point) that your position is not a Biblical one.

You said, “I am not particularly interested in speaking to the birds, squirrels and wind…” Well, neither am I. I have not preached on college campuses nearly as much or as long as you have…but I can probably count on one hand, the number of times that I didn’t have a pretty good size crowd to preach to. I don’t do “attention getting opening acts”, either. I simply just lift up my voice, cry aloud and spare not. I preach the Scriptures and people, 99% of the time, come to listen. I dispute with sinners, call out there sin, call them to repentance, preach on the cross, preach on living Holy, use apologetics, etc. for up to 3 hours straight, at times. Sometimes the crowds are larger at some campuses, than at others.

I have lots of videos, which show my whole open air session, at dozens of colleges, showing me doing this. It’s not only me, either. I know lots of brothers, who do the same thing and have the same results. I’m not sure why you think that you “need” to do “attention getting opening acts” in order to gather a crowd. Yet I don’t consider those days that I haven’t had large crowds or haven’t had a crowd at all, to be “failures”. I consider those days to be successful, as long as I was blameless before God, preached under the anointing of the Holy Spirit, did my best to preach the whole counsel of God and did it for the glory of God and salvation of sinners.

So, just like a “small crowd” or “no crowd” doesn’t = failure, so a “large crowd” does not = success. It depends on how someone “gets a crowd”. If a crowd is gathered by using unbiblical, ungodly means or means that make the preacher less than blameless, then, to me, it doesn’t matter what is said afterward. In fact, it almost discredits everything that is said afterward. So, I care not what my speech class said in college, or your speech class said in 8th grade. I care about what the Bible says, and what N.T. Saints model for me. That is the model that I follow. And I’m convinced, by Scripture and by experience, that I don’t have to do anything but preach the Bible…
November 30 at 2:01pm · Like · 4
Jed Smock Well, I must say I think this may be the first time I have been disfellowshipped before I have even had fellowship with a person. I don’t remember having ever met Tracy. It is also may be the quickest end to a facebook conversation that I have ever had. So be it. Jesse has already sufficiently addressed this issue of hating sinners. Thanks for saving my time, Tracy. I pray that the Lord will mature you in the faith. [Jed’s pride is glaring!]
November 30 at 2:05pm · Like · 1
Tracy Bays I just gave you the “Stephen” treatment. He did not mix [mince] words either. Why don’t you stop sinning Jed Smock? Why don’t you wash your filthy rotten heart? Why do you defend sin in your own life, but condemn it in the lives of strangers? YOU HYPOCRITE! I hope you humble your pride before you die. Right now, you are no better off than Billy Graham. I will say one thing. If you do choose to die in your unrepentant sin. Then you will be a textbook example of how someone can lose their Salvation. You will prove your own theology, by bad example. My theology is similar to yours. I also believe people can lose their final Salvation. The major defining difference is this. I apply it to myself. I would rather you did the same. It’s too bad you are taking the way of the hypocrite. Tragic really!
November 30 at 2:12pm · Edited · Like · 1
Tracy Bays Excusing cussing and sexually explicit smut magazine-type editorials is not what I call maturity in the faith of Christ. It would qualify for maturity in the faith of an antichrist. Sad.
November 30 at 2:33pm · Edited · Like · 4
Tracy Bays Since I have been so brightly lit here, I also warn Brother Jesse. If you continue to follow blind men, you will eventually end up in the ditch. I don’t know how much longer I can call you Brother. I hope I can continue. Yet, there will come a time, when I will be unable, if you remain on this course. I know you feel like you owe a lot to Jed smock, and others like him. You owe them nothing. You owe everything to Christ Jesus. I know that Jesus used them in your life. It does not justify them, forever. The truth is that Jed Smock has fallen from a right standing of grace. To follow that, is to follow death. [AMEN and AMEN! excellent rebuke to a very haughty, proud, deceived reprobate!]

Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
2Co 13:6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.
2Co 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

Even Paul said, if he were to become a reprobate, for Christians to not follow him. We should base everything in Christ, and not the favoritism of men. Even if all men were to turn from God, it does not justify ourselves in turning.
November 30 at 2:29pm · Edited · Like · 1
Jed Smock: Kerrigan, the original post dealt with Cindy’s preaching which I was attempting to put in context, and it was a general response to her critics. I have addressed all these issues before with the help of some of my colleagues in various threads over the years. Obviously, you disagree on my tactics and aspect of my message, many do. If you want to review my position and defense, then read Who Will Rise Up? or my other writings on my website or my daily journal entries. Your concerns have been addressed time and time again. You have made your position clear and you have your mind made up. So be it. I am more of the school “let’s agree to disagree.” Apparently, some of our differences are in the usage and application of the OT in our lives and teachings. Nevertheless, I would consider our differences to be over matters of good or bad judgment or what is wise and unwise or Biblical interpretation. In my estimation these are not matters of sin or righteousness or matters that affect our salvation. I suspect the underlining issue between us includes the pacifists vs. use of force questions, which I have discussed with your colleagues and over which we both seem to be passionate.

[Smock reveals his ecumenical spirit of compromise with apostasy] I prefer, especially, among the open air preachers, to find areas of agreement, whether it be with Calvinists, Catholics, old-line Protestants, Fundamentalists, Pentecostals, or those who believe in entire sanctification in this life and those who don’t. BTW, I still respect Billy Graham. My standard for determining whether or not I can be in fellowship is the Apostles’ Creed. I am happy for all the open-air preachers, especially the ones who have proven themselves faithful over a significant period of time. I wish to be at peace with them all. Even the ones who admit to being “sinning saints” may be used of God, like Samson. Over the years I have seen a lot preachers come and go. I have had many over the years, who think it their duty to correct me; most of them are long gone from the preaching scene, if not the Christian stage. Preach on Brother, you and Tracy and John have better things to do than waste your time trying to instruct an old codger like me. Not that I have nothing to learn from the young. I enjoy learning from Jesse Morrell, who not only has superior knowledge, but he has one of the most humble and helpful spirits I know among the fraternity of open-air preachers. And there are others my junior, who writings and ministry encourage me in the faith.

If I may offer a final thought, an old pastor friend of mine once said that he was careful about whom he opposed or got in strong disagreements to the point of parting ways or being overly critical. He explained with the passage of time, his views often changed or his opponent’s views changed. Things that seem so important and crucial to him at the time later did not seem as significant as he originally thought.
[An old prophet once convinced a man of God, who came from Bethel, that it wasn’t important to obey God – to not eat with anyone in that wicked place, didn’t he? And what was the consequence that man of God suffered for letting his guard down and believing that liar, for the sake of fellowship – with a prophet? Death!]
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience.

November 30 at 3:29pm · Like · 3
Paul Thomas Jed, the problem with the preaching clip is that it is detached from the work of Christ on behalf of sinners. There is nothing of Jesus in it. The message that anyone listening to it heard was essentially this, “If you are a virgin you are going to heaven. If you are a forrrrrrrnicator, you are going to hell.” That is not the gospel!!!!! That is a self-righteous Pharisaical condemnation of the masses without any hope of salvation for sinners. There was nothing of Christ therefore it was not a gospel proclamation.
November 30 at 3:30pm · Like · 1
Jed Smock Paul, this is a 8 minute clip out of an hour long stint by Cindy. [How could anyone tolerate her circus act longer than these eight miserable God-mocking minutes?] Certainly, we do not believe all virgins are going to heaven; we do believe all those who are fornicating are damned. This video was originally filmed and posted by an atheist.
November 30 at 3:37pm · Like · 1
Paul Thomas Having seen a number of other videos and also read through your comments I will stick with my comment. It is a fari representation of your ministry. Did she not say something to the affect of, “how many of you are fornicators? you are going to hell. How many are virgins? good for you.” The reality is virgin or not we all need Christ and when Paul listed the former sins of the Corinthian church in 1 Cor 6 he mentioned fornication then in v11 he said, “such were some of you.” I am all for preaching hell and sin, do it every week, but people will never be saved by hell but they will be saved by seeing the beauty of Christ on the cross suffering for their fornication.
November 30 at 3:41pm · Like · 1
Jed Smock I am not going to apologize for the video. Students do not usually post when I am speaking of Christ’s atonement. I want to see them saved from Hell, but first they must get save from sin. We preach the whole counsel of God, but not necessarily in 8 minute video clips. I take up my cross and bear it daily; it is the cross of Christ.[no, Jed, your crucifix is what one martyr called a “worthless stick”, and what God’s word calls a graven image and an idol] Few men saw the “beauty of the Cross” when Jesus was hanging on the Cross. The Centurion did, the two Mary’s and John did. Some see Christ in me and most do not. I do my best to reveal Christ. If you are proclaiming the message better than I then more power to you. I have not seen any of your preaching videos so I can’t comment.
November 30 at 3:51pm · Like · 3
Jed Smock Paul I just went to your timeline; it could be that we have a different understanding as to what constitutes preaching the gospel. I take it you are a Calvinist?
November 30 at 3:53pm · Like · 1
Tracy Bays Jed. We did meet once. It was in passing. I don’t expect you to remember it. I meet people all the time in passing, while I preach. I don’t always remember them. That is not important.

We have had this discussion before on Facebook. Mr. Cope had jumped in, and took over most of the conversation. That is when he said God comes to him to solve His problems. God comes to Mr. Cope to solve the problems that God has? Self professed apostle. He is a heretic. You greatly esteem the man. Which also is not a surprise to me. You rightly say, that I am not the first person to confront you on your sin. Many others before me, have also confronted you on your sin. You have been refusing to repent for many years. All you do, is look to some Old Testament passages. Which do not apply to you, and then twist them to justify your sin. Peter warns us that unstable men will do that. Twist all of Scripture to their own destruction.

I suspect that this doctrine of justified lying also comes from your direction. That sometimes a situation will morally compel you to lie. I smell a dead rat!

I understand many preachers look up to you. This is why I publicly rebuke you. You are a dangerous man. I mentioned Billy Graham, because you have some things in common with him. Many people also look up to that man. He had also preached the Gospel in truth, early in his life. He also compromised with the world. He also endorsed the Roman Catholic church. Which you also do, to some extent. He also has lost his way with God, and will not repent. So like you, he will have the blood of many men’s souls on his hands at the judgment seat.

You have lost your way. You are merely doing what seems right to you. The end of that is death. My problem is not with this specific video. My problem is with your sinful heart. I know your influence. I also know that many preachers may separate from me, because of your influence. So be it. I care too much for God. I care too much for your soul. I care too much for their souls. To just remain silent. You need to repent!
November 30 at 4:07pm · Edited · Like · 1
Kerrigan Skelly Jed, I own a copy of your book. I have read it at least once, maybe twice, through the years. I ate the meat and spit out the bones. The only reason that I joined in on this discussion is because my name was brought up several times. Therefore I felt a need to post. Then I simply replied to your comments. I know that you know my position and that I know your position. We have “gone this route before”. It is obvious to me, that neither of us will “budge”. This saddens me. I’m bound by the examples found in the N.T. and the commands of the Scripture. It’s too bad that my concerns have never been answered by the Scriptures [by Jed]…and seems that they never will.

As Tracy is, I am also concerned for younger preachers who look up to you, make excuses for some of your conduct or simply “brush” it aside, under the guise of you “being around a long time” or not wanting to be “divisive”. Or maybe they just want to be accepted by other preachers, because we are such a “small group” of people. I care very little for acceptance from any group. I care very much to be blameless in the eyes of my Lord and to be acceptable to Him, in everything I do.

And since I’ll never “catch up to you” in how many years I have been preaching in the open air, some may use that “argument” against me. Just because you have been preaching longer than me, does not mean that I cannot correct you. Besides, I know that you’ve been corrected on these same issues by those who have been preaching as long as you and by some who have been preaching even longer than you. You didn’t receive correction from them, either. This shows that your objection of “younger preachers”, is null and void.

Your “ecumenicalism” is well documented and promoted by yourself…whether it is with Joel Osteen, Billy Graham, the Pope, the Roman Catholic Church, etc. I strive to be “accepting” and to “look over” things that matter very little in light of eternity. However, we must all “draw our line in the sand”. I simply can’t accept some of the things you say or do in the open air. I don’t think that the Lord is pleased with such things and such things always grieve my heart. I truly have tried my best to “look over” such things, but simply haven’t been able to. By the grace of God, may I never!

I’ll tell you, it would make my life much “easier” if I did “accept” you and some of the things you say/do. I wouldn’t have to deal with conflict, concerning some of my friends or possible friends. I could have fellowship with just about every open air preacher out there…even if they cuss in the open air, tell dirty stories or punch sinners who attack them/their property. I wouldn’t have to think about separating from other preachers or actually take the action separate from other preachers. I would be much more “liked” in open air preacher “circles”, etc., etc.

Oh well. That stuff means very little in light of being pleasing to my Lord. So, I will continue to separate from those who use your tactics. I have no desire for such separation, but see it as necessary. It grieves me, it really does. Oh and the argument isn’t, nor has it ever been, whether you do ANY good or whether God uses you AT ALL. The argument is also not whether or not you “preach the Gospel”. I’ve heard you do it, myself. For this, I DO rejoice, for people are hearing these things and they MAY get saved.

Having said that, people get saved at Benny Hinn crusades, at times. I’m sure people may even (rarely) get saved through Joel Osteen’s messages. You never know, right? That doesn’t mean that I accept everything these men do, call them brothers, promote their ministry, have fellowship with them, don’t try to protect other Christians from them or don’t attempt to correct them. I would be derelict in my duty, before God, if I did such things. You’re no exception.

So, as I said, the only reason I joined in this discussion, is because my name was brought up. I can only think of one other time that I “called you out” by name and that was on Jesse Morrell’s message board, back in 2006. Here’s the link to the whole discussion, in case anyone else wants to read what I said and what you said, back then:

http://openairoutreach.proboards.com/index.cgi…
OpenAirOutreach.com – Jed Smock – University of Illinois
openairoutreach.proboards.com
December 1 at 9:46am · Edited · Like · 1 · Remove Preview
Jed Smock Well, I have always gone by the old saying myself, eat the meat spit out the bones. I have to do that among most people with whom I relate, interact, pray, preach, socialize, etc. Certainly, I don’t want you choking to death over my teachings on Anatomy or in “Sex Ed with Brother Jed.” One has to get explicit these days when most of them think the anus is an entry hole instead of an exist hole. These classes of mine are very mild compared to what is being taught and sanctioned in their Human Sexuality class, which is often the most popular class on campus. After all, I do usually insist that my students use clinical terms like penis, vagina instead of the vulgar terms which both the girls and boys usually use. Nor do I have the explicit pictures which are in their text books. [no, he pokes his finger in a hole made with fingers on his other hand and lots of movement] Nor do I make it an assignment that they watch porn all of which happens in the classroom. I am not teaching Sunday School on campus. Meanwhile, they are often blowing up the condoms which the university has provided.
November 30 at 5:29pm · Edited · Like · 2
Tracy Bays: Jed you once told me that I was a prude, like you used to be. Do you remember my response? I said, “The word Prude is short for Prudent. What is wrong with being a prudent man? I think it would be better if you were to return to the prudence of your early years.” Or something to that effect. I am working from my memory.

I would echo my notion. Why don’t you return to the prudence of your former years as a Gospel Preacher? You have not always been so accepting of sin, in your life. There was a time when you were pure. Wasn’t there?
November 30 at 5:35pm · Like · 3
Kerrigan Skelly Jed, do you think that comparing your preaching to a “Human Sexuality class”, college text books and classroom assignments is the right comparison, in order to justify what you are doing and saying in the open air? Shouldn’t you, instead, look to the Scriptures for your justification? You are literally comparing yourself with the wicked world around you and saying, “I’m not as bad as them”, in order to justify what you are saying and doing.

You said (emphasis mine), “One HAS TO get explicit these days when most of them think the anus is an entry hole instead of an exist [exit] hole.” Come on, Jed…you don’t really believe that, do you? I mean, homosexuality was rampant in Paul’s day, in the Roman empire. I don’t ever seeing him do this, let alone say that he HAS TO do it.

You really think that you must stoop to the level of the sinners’ minds, in order to “reach them” or rebuke them for their ungodliness? You mean that you couldn’t just tell them that homosexuality is unnatural, shameful, vile and abominable in God’s sight (what the Scriptures say)? What the Scriptures say (what God says) isn’t good enough?

Personally, as you seemed to admit back in 2006, I think that you’ve allowed the sinners to influence you too much. Instead of “pulling them up to your level”, you’ve stooped to theirs…
November 30 at 5:37pm · Like · 6
Tracy Bays Fletcher is at the root of this problem.
An Episcopal priest, Joseph Fletcher, had developed what is known as “Situational Ethics” in the 1960’s. There is a reason that Paul did not employ these ways of thinking. The Apostle Paul was long dead before this concept was developed. Also, Paul was a Christian, and much closer in time to the Teachings of Jesus. Also, the writings of Paul were inspired Scripture. The writings, and thoughts of Fletcher are not.
November 30 at 5:48pm · Like
Jed Smock I am not simply a gospel preacher or preacher of the word. In addition to anatomy and sex ed, I teach on history, political science, sociology, psychology, economics, the arts, etc. I tell stories from my past life in a manner as though I am reliving those days, that is how one tells a good story. The intent is to always represent the folly of sin, which my stories do when they are heard in context of my obvious disgust over sin and fervent opposition to sin. I may or may not tell them the moral of the stories. Nor do I explain, “Now I am being satirical.” That would take the punch out of the parody. Sometimes, I lighten up and try to have some fun with the students by pressing their buttons, especially the feminists. One supportive and cultured Christian wife and mother once said to me, “Brother Jed, that is why students like you. You play with them.” Now I know I have given you more fodder to be critical and tell me how Jesus said we will be hated of all men. As someone once said to me, “Brother Jed, you are the man students love to hate.” Then someone corrected him, “No, you have it wrong, Brother Jed is the man people hate to love.”

As Jesus said in Luke 16: 8-9: “And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light. And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.”
[It appears to me Jed is an admitted sellout, who HAS failed to abide in Christ, and has fallen away. ]
November 30 at 5:53pm · Like · 1
Jed Smock I attempt to use all the arts in my preaching and teaching including theatrics.
November 30 at 5:54pm · Like · 1
Tracy Bays: The Bible also says to be pure in heart. Justifying cussing, and dirty sex exploits, do not come from a pure heart.

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Psa_24:4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

1Ti_1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

2Ti_2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

1Pe_1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
November 30 at 6:00pm · Like · 1
Jed Smock I guess I am too down to earth for you fellows.
[you mean earthy or worldly don’t you, Jed?]
November 30 at 6:01pm · Like · 1
Living Faith Joh_3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
November 30 at 6:02pm · Like · 4
Living Faith Psa 15:1 A Psalm of David. LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
Psa 15:2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
Psa 15:3 He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
Psa 15:4 In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the LORD. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.
Psa 15:5 He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.
November 30 at 6:03pm · Like · 3
Living Faith Eph_4:31 Let ALL bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and CLAMOUR, and EVIL SPEAKING, be put away from you, with all malice

clamor
1. a loud uproar, as from a crowd of people: the clamor of the crowd at the gates.
2. a vehement expression of desire or dissatisfaction: the clamor of the proponents of the law. [heckle]
4. any loud and continued noise: the clamor of traffic; the clamor of birds and animals in the zoo.
November 30 at 6:05pm · Like · 2
Living Faith LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? He that taketh [not]up a reproach against his neighbour.
November 30 at 6:06pm · Like
Tracy Bays Ephesians 4:31 does not speak against Gospel Preaching. Yet, it does speak against dirty sex stories, and also cussing.
November 30 at 6:06pm · Edited · Unlike · 4
Living Faith Jude speaks against “filthy dreamers” who despise reproof.
November 30 at 6:08pm · Like · 1
Living Faith 1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
November 30 at 6:08pm · Like · 1
Living Faith: From what I read today on your wall, Jed, am I incorrect to assume you think the Crusades were the act of godly men doing God a service to fight Islamics with swords?
November 30 at 6:11pm · Like
Living Faith: Were the executions done by the Catholic church to “heretics” godliness?
November 30 at 6:12pm · Edited · Like
Living Faith: Was John Calvin justified to hope Michael Servetus would be executed? [After all, Servetus denied Jesus is God]
November 30 at 6:14pm · Edited · Like
Living Faith: Joh 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
Joh 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. [this woman showed no sign of repentance in this account at all]
Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Are we willing to follow Christ’s example here, or stone the sinner because our conscience has been seared by our pride?
November 30 at 6:19pm · Like
Jed Smock I am assuming some of the Crusaders were godly and other ungodly. Even the ungodly among them were doing service to God, the Church and mankind in general in the successes (not the( excesses) of the Crusades.
November 30 at 6:44pm · Like · 1
Jed Smock I think Calvin was much too harsh on Servetus. Of course, those were different times. Servetus seemed to go out of his way to antagonize Calvin [you mean like you, Cindy, Cope and others heckle who you assume are sinners, claiming you’re “preaching the gospel” while you’re not? Benny Hinn claims he’s doing the work of the Spirit when he’s making people pass out, and ignorant supporters send him money. What makes you any better?]
November 30 at 6:46pm · Like · 1
Living Faith: Who else goes out of their way to antagonize [more than the Smocks],  claiming it’s a great way to gather a crowd?
November 30 at 7:22pm · Edited · Like
Jed Smock I call it wielding the sword of the Spirit. Who are you anyway?
November 30 at 6:50pm · Like · 1
Living Faith: “Even the ungodly among them were doing service to God, the Church and mankind in general in the successes (not the( excesses) of the Crusades.”

Then it’s not just an assumption of mine that your heart is ungodly. Your weapons are CARNAL.

their course is evil, and their force is not right.
Jer 23:11 For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.
Jer 23:12 Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD.
Jer 23:13 And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.
Jer 23:14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery [with worldly wisdom], and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.
Jer 23:15 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for FROM THE PROPHETS of Jerusalem HAS PROFANENESS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE LAND
Jer 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
Jer 23:17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
Jer 23:18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?
Jer 23:19 Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.
November 30 at 7:07pm · Edited · Like
Living Faith: Joh 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
Joh 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
November 30 at 6:55pm · Like
Living Faith God hates these liars and murderers who misrepresent his heart, and I can’t stomach ungodly warmongerers like John Hagee, Pat Robertson, Rod Parsley, or any that take up the sword against real or perceived enemies. They DO hate their enemies. Many seem SO deceived, they think they can love their enemies AND kill them too-which seems to me where the argument finally arrives, that claims we should hate the sinner.
November 30 at 7:06pm · Edited · Like
Living Faith: Jed Smock: “I call it wielding the sword of the Spirit.”

Your murderous spirit it is, not God’s.

“Who are you anyway?”

Certainly not your ride to the airport.

1Co_5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a RAILER, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

railer
rail
1. to utter bitter complaint or vehement denunciation (often followed by at or against ): to rail at fate.
verb (used with object)
2. to bring, force, etc., by railing.

bray

1. the loud, harsh cry of a donkey.
2. any similar loud, harsh sound.
4. to make a loud, harsh, disagreeable sound. [forrrrrnicaaaaatorrrrrs!]
5. to utter with a loud, harsh sound, like a donkey.
November 30 at 7:11pm · Edited · Like
Living Faith: “Who are you anyway?”

[What difference does it make?] Jed, can’t you discern the pride in your question? It’s certainly obvious to the discerning. What difference does it make that I’m not famous like you are? I am Ray White, who met you at FSU this week, and my wife is Patti. We thought you must’ve been kidding when we heard what you said about the indians, but now I know you were not kidding. I fear for your lost soul.
November 30 at 7:18pm · Like
Living Faith: “I think Calvin was much too harsh on Servetus. Of course, those were different times.”

Different times? Was it lawful before God to execute heretics then, Jed? Calvin knew what Jesus taught, and completely disregarded it to follow the Catholic Augustine’s lies.
November 30 at 7:21pm · Like
Jed Smock Oh, hello, Ray. I sure enjoyed that breakfast and the fellowship. It was nice while it lasted. I was looking forward to the help on campus. [I repent for helping him (at FSU) justify his sign, which read “You deserve hell”.] Oh well, the beat goes on. I just like to know with whom I am dealing. For all I knew before, you could have been better known than me. It seems as far as you are others on this thread are concerned, “infamous” might be a better word to apply to me. I forget, what was the Indian comment? [I only partially heard what sounded like him saying that the indians deserved what they got from the white man. The other things he’s said concerning the military and “moral government” also cause me to think that he believes it.]
November 30 at 7:38pm · Edited · Like · 1
Living Faith: I wasn’t aware of your use of the same ungodly GRAVEN IMAGE of a crucified Christ all the popes have carried for centuries to “get attention”. God sees it, and his word forbids it, but your way is better?
November 30 at 8:04pm · Like
Living Faith: [Jed glories in his shame, boasting:]“I carry my staff crucifix as reminder that Christ died on account of our sins, that salvation is available to them that believe in his atoning blood.” Just how can blatant disobediece to clear scripture show anyone a good witness, Jed? YOUR DEED TEACHES REBELLION, NOT FAITH.
November 30 at 8:07pm · Like
Living Faith:Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work [or reproof] reprobate.
November 30 at 8:09pm · Like
Living Faith: Mat 15:6 … Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mat 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
November 30 at 8:12pm · Edited · Like
Bro Cope “I can’t stomach this”

It’s a good thing you have no say in it whatsoever. [he’ll finally figure out Who’s been crying out against his filth for YEARS on judgment day, and his filthy mouth sure won’t have any say in God’s judgment whatsoever!]

Ro 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. God justifies those who OBEY him.
November 30 at 8:18pm · Like · 1
Jim Gilles John McGlone,
You big hypocrite!!! You posted Kerrigan’s 10 pitfalls video and you know full well that Kerrigan just recently stated that he would have called a woman at the Mardi Gras a whore. You have just recently called women sluts.

Kerrigan blocked me over 1 year ago when I called his hand for pontificating that using the word whore was sinful, because God uses it.

You John, recently defriended me, before I started uploading my preaching videos because you claimed that I had a “carnival atmosphere” and was “overly divisive.” I asked you to provide examples but you have defaulted to this day. I asked you if I was ever more divisive than you were when you preached at your uncle’s funeral. You defaulted again. Who is divisive?

I told you that we all knew the real reason why your were defriending me was because your guru Kerrigan demanded you to because I would not bow down to him in his 10 pitfalls video and over voting and pacifism.
December 2 at 2:00am · Edited · Like
Victoria Beers Ouch Sister Cindy> whores on the campus> yikes you really go at it hard> good for you! lol Sad so many are deceived, but I know you will make a huge impression on them> bless you!
November 30 at 8:41pm · Like · 1
Jed Smock Well, Ray, I think you were being a bit deceptive. I guess you were being as wise as a serpent or as sly as a fox. I don’t like communicating with people over FB unless I know their name and can look up a little info on their profile. I think a more honest approach would have been, “Hello, Brother Jed, this is Ray White, I had some questions and concerns for you concerning your ministry.” No matter, though, the results probably would have been the same. [of course they would have been. MANY have rebuked you for years, yet you remain proud and hardened by sin.]
I pray that Paul is feeling better.
[Is there no irony in Jed’s pontificating ANYTHING about an “honest approach”?]
November 30 at 8:48pm · Like · 1
Jim Gilles Jesse Morrell,
John McGlone only wants you to use the New Testament because of his Marcion pacifism, which by the way, as we all can see, is quite militant.
November 30 at 8:50pm · Like
Living Faith: i will not delete this string since Jed exposes himself here better than I could accomplish.
November 30 at 8:52pm · Like · 1
Jed Smock I suppose Ray is closing the curtain for the same reason The Wizard of Oz operated from behind a curtain.
November 30 at 8:53pm · Like · 1
Jim Gilles Keep it up unless you are afraid of truth.
November 30 at 8:53pm · Like
Living Faith: so now people using a nic are “deceptive”? more unrighteous judgment!
November 30 at 8:53pm · Like
Living Faith: those of you who want to try to judge without hearing the matter through first are a shame
November 30 at 8:55pm · Like
Jed Smock My ministry is an open book. Multitudes and multitudes have seen me in person. I haven’t began to look at all the videos that are available over the internet. Plus my writings. [He has no shame of what people can watch him saying on youtube because he has no fear of God.]
November 30 at 8:56pm · Like · 1
Living Faith: 3Jn 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
3Jn 1:10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.
3Jn 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.
November 30 at 8:58pm · Like
Living Faith: “BTW, I still respect Billy Graham. My standard for determining whether or not I can be in fellowship is the Apostles’ Creed.”
Jed, popes believe that. You respect the pope and are in fellowship with the RCC then.
November 30 at 9:07pm · Like
Living Faith: Billy Graham says his gospel is the same as Catholic Church http://search.yahoo.com/search…
November 30 at 9:09pm · Like · Remove Preview
Living Faith: Billy Graham at Roman Catholic Belmont College received
the yoke from ROME. Graham was granted an honorary
doctor’s degree from this Roman Catholic College. Graham told
his audience that the ‘Gospel that founded this college is the
same gospel which I preach today.’
November 30 at 9:12pm · Like
Living Faith: Graham teaches OSAS and dispensationalism, and has denied that Jesus is the only way to the father on public tv [all three teachings are heresy]
November 30 at 9:14pm · Edited · Like
Living Faith: 2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
November 30 at 9:13pm · Like
Jed Smock Well, Ray, I would caution you against making the gate and the way so narrow that you end up shutting yourself out of the Kingdom.
November 30 at 9:17pm · Like
Jim Gilles Ray,
Yes, It is against fb rules to not reveal yourself. [Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. So if we keep man-made rules, that determines if we’re holy? Even Jesus disguised himself and went to a Jewish feast. Was HE ALSO “deceptive?”]

November 30 at 9:20pm · Like
Living Faith: Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
November 30 at 9:24pm · Like
Jed Smock Living Faith, (Ray) is more than a “little deceptive” he claims he lives in Aizawl and and he is from South Australia. Actually, I was just in his home Monday night which is in Tallahassee, Fl. Ray, when were you planning on revealing your ruse to me?
November 30 at 9:29pm · Like · 1
Living Faith: I don’t think it’s anyone’s business to know my personal information until I want to give it, but fb seems to think we shouldn’t have the option to choose not to give it out, so ok then, I’ll fill in their blanks with their own suggestions. Strain out a a gnat while you swallow a camel all you want, Jed sMOCK, I don’t misrepresent God with an evil spirit and call it holy. I won’t fellowship or respect liars and false prophets and widen the way to heaven to be accepted of men.
November 30 at 10:03pm · Like · 1
Jed Smock So when was it you were planning on revealing your ruse?
November 30 at 10:09pm · Like · 1
Living Faith: thank you for revealing your ruse on this string
November 30 at 10:10pm · Like
Jed Smock Let’s see what was my ruse? [ Calling yourself a Christian]
November 30 at 10:11pm · Like · 1
Jed Smock Nothing stated on this thread that I have not said countless times in various venues. [continual lies don’t make them true]
November 30 at 10:11pm · Like · 1
Living Faith: Rahab didn’t reveal to the enemies of God the whereabouts of His spies. So condemn her while you’re at swallowing camels
November 30 at 10:12pm · Like · 1
Living Faith: yours is an open book of filth
November 30 at 10:13pm · Edited · Like · 1
Jed Smock So you were you spying on me all along, pretending to be a friend and supportive when in fact you were not?
November 30 at 10:13pm · Like · 1
Jed Smock When are you goiing to straighten out your account with FB?
November 30 at 10:15pm · Like · 1
Living Faith: I’m familiar with those who practice the ruse of saying all the right things concerning Calvinism or OSAS, then pulling the rug out from under everything they correctly said by admitting fellowship and tolerance for lying false prophets. ALL hypocrites contradict themselves and preach a mixed message.
December 1 at 12:27am · Edited · Like · 1
Jed Smock Are there any other pseudonyms under which you are covering your actual identity? In my experience people who do this have several accounts under different names. Lack of actual portraits is usually a dead giveaway.
November 30 at 10:35pm · Edited · Like · 2
Bro Cope Jer 48:10 Cursed be he that doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully, and cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood. [AS IF THIS filthy mouthed hypocrite has any authority to talk!]
November 30 at 10:20pm · Like
Jed Smock BTW, Ray, You might “try a little wine for thy stomachs sake.”–1 Tim 5:23. [such loving concern!]
November 30 at 10:56pm · Like
Neil Konitshek Very glad to see some of the more well-known and experienced street preachers taking a stand against JED AND CINDY SMOCK. What they do on campus is a sham and denigrates the true gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. I am sickened when I hear their preaching here in San Diego and I have taken a public stand against them the last few years and will again this Spring if the Lord allows.

They make it harder for us, as people get so confused by their false doctrine and horrific behavior, and I can’t imagine they are truly saved and ministering in the Holy Spirit of God. There is nothing holy about their filthy words and deeds.

Jed claims to have not sinned in over 40 years and pridefully announces this lie every time he comes here.

The “GOOD OLD BOYS NETWORK” stick up for each other and will never take a stand against one another no matter what. It is just like a bunch of corrupt politicans or police. They cover one another and slap one another on the back and viciously attack those who dare to question them.

They don’t fool God, though, and surely He knows their works, but is VERY LONG -SUFFERING and allows these shenanigans to proceed for a time. His Judgment will be true and there will be many for who will be shocked on that fiery day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zJeopUcUxM
Brother Jed Tells Us How He Sexually Assaulted Drunk Coeds at Indiana State
George Edward Smock tells us how he and his fraternity brothers would feed booze…See More
December 1 at 12:18am · Unlike · 2 · Remove Preview
Living Faith: “So you were you spying on me all along, pretending to be a friend and supportive when in fact you were not?”
[Psa 119:78 Let the proud be ashamed; for they dealt perversely with me without a cause: but I will meditate in thy precepts.]
Jed, I knew very little about you before yesterday, except that you were a campus preacher. What I found out about you [after your visit] from videos and your own words has disturbed me so much that you can abandon any hope that Patti or I will see you [again] at FSU as planned. No sir, I feigned nothing, and was not spying on you. I examine everyone as we all should. “KNOW them that labor among you”, and “have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them”. “Go from the presence of the foolish man when you perceive not in him the lips of knowledge.” Withdraw yourselves from proud, perverse men of corrupt minds, who swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.
December 1 at 12:38am · Like · 3
Neil Konitshek Jed and Cindy love to draw a crowd by saying perverse things to students so they get agitated and yell and draw more people around them. He is a showman and I see nor hear anything that would convince me that they are servants of Christ. It is amazing that they have been doing what they have been doing for so long but do not the scriptures say:

Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Watch out for these wolves among the sheep as they will try their best to defame you and claim you are “jealous” of their supposed success. What a farce!

Someone needs to start a group exposing all these charlatans so that younger preachers will know to watch out for them and to not be caught up in their deceptions.
December 1 at 12:52am · Unlike · 2
Gregory Trowse They should join the Westboro Baptist loonies.
December 1 at 12:56am · Unlike · 2
Bro Cope Neil, it is you that defends sin in a believer. It is you that does not believe that one can cease from sin. That verse applies to those who do as you believe. They continue to sin. They are excluded because they have not ceased from sin – “ye that work iniquity”.

Your deception is that you counsel people that it is okay to disobey God and obey Satan. Otherwise you too would declare that you have ceased from sin. That is something you do not seem to do. [Yet this hypocrite talks filthy, calls himself “above a prophet”, claims he doesn’t sin, and gives GOD advice??!]
December 1 at 12:57am · Like
Bro Cope Konitshek is a preacher who is more concerned about being liked than obeying the Lord.
December 1 at 12:58am · Like · 1
Gregory Trowse JWs say they don’t sin either.
December 1 at 12:59am · Unlike · 2
Neil Konitshek See, here comes the “Good Old Boys” defending one another! This guy “Bro Cope” is out of his mind so beware of him also. He claims God kills people that stand against him and has travelled to heaven to see Jesus a few times, etc. Hard to say which one is more looney? I mean how many Christians do you know that preach with a crucifix and love to tell dirty stories?
December 1 at 1:01am · Unlike · 3
Living Faith: I had never heard of anyone doing those things together before!
December 1 at 1:04am · Like · 1
Neil Konitshek Jesse Morrell plays the hypocrite right along side of them too. He is the youngest of the “GOBN” (Good Old Boys Network) and he deleted me from his group the other day because I dared to speak out against Jed. He claims to believe in “free speech” but won’t allow it if it doesn’t agree with his point of view. He has a right to do that, but I defended his right to share in the Street Preachers Discussion Group and I refused to delete him even though others were furious I allowed him to stay in the group. [I wonder if he’d tolerate three or four people posting for you in his group after he banned you, like this this brood of vipers did here for their proud buddy Jim Guilles after I banned him?]
December 1 at 1:06am · Unlike · 1
Neil Konitshek Here is a small example of what Cope preaches. This is directly from his FB page:

Bro Cope [wrote]
I think you don’t understand our motivation in the glbt people. We are not threatened as much as we face a really hard thing with them. You see the Bible says that when Jesus returns, it is the Christians who will be executing those who are judged unworthy of life. We would much rather that they repent of their sins and be made acceptable for life in the Kingdom. The alternative, for us, is having to drag those draq queens to the lake of fire and tossing them in.
Now I don’t know about you but the thought of dragging a blubbering, weeping, vomitting, defecating, nancy boy who is begging me for mercy that I am not allowed to give, over to the lake of fire is not something I want particularly to do. It would be far better for the queers, lesbians, and tranny’s to forsake their wicked ways both for them and for us.
I will be greatly distressed when I have to go against the love I have for them to execute them.”
_______________________________________________________________________

Cope proudly claims to be “HIGHER than a prophet”! He tells the guy making this video “I’m going to use your eye sockets like a bowling ball when I toss you into the lake of fire”.”I’m going to torture you before I toss you into the lake of fire” Hear him say this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7Is_6uSSf0
December 1 at 1:10am · Unlike · 1
Living Faith: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLOlJIg0zS4 [Cope CALLS THE MAN PREACHING A “DICK WAD” WHEN HE POINTED AT HIM @ 3:29]
BRO JED IDOLATRY
Confronting Brother JED over idolatry and his accomplice over his filthy mouth.
December 1 at 9:12am · Like · Remove Preview
יוֹנָה אֲמִתַּי Jed Smock does not believe that God is all knowing, he believes in sinless perfection, he does not believe in the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ, he does not believe in Original Sin, and his wife teaches men, etc. This man should not be preaching out in the streets. He needs to be silent and sit under sound teaching.
December 1 at 9:20am · Like · 1
יוֹנָה אֲמִתַּי Bro Cope is crazy. He has claimed to have conversations with Jesus in outer space somewhere and that he is an Apostle. Arguing with him is like pulling teeth.
December 1 at 9:22am · Unlike · 2
Kerrigan Skelly: Jed is so hardened and blind, at this point, that I don’t think he will ever “get it”. It really is sad. I think that I’ve been very respectable in my dialogue/conversation with him, throughout the years of my disagreement with him. I’ve publicly warned him twice now, by name. There are other times that I have warned others (publicly and privately) of the practices that he engages in. It has been done for many open air preachers to see. I pray that more open air preachers will “come out from among him” and stop justifying, “brushing under the rug” or “turning a blind eye” to his words and deeds.

I have many friends, who “look up to Jed” and I can’t understand why. Just because someone has been doing a certain thing for a long period of time or just because someone has been devoted to doing something very frequently, does not mean they are necessarily to be set up as an example. Just because someone has “good doctrine” concerning soteriology or “holiness”, does not mean that they deserve to be set up as an example, either…especially when they are being hypocritical (although Jed contends that he is not being hypocritical).

In my mind, people who “look up to Jed”, really only have two options:

1) Continue down the same path of justifying Jed’s ungodliness and become like him- tell dirty stories, justify violence, cursing and situational ethics. Being consistent would force them to become ecumenical of other sinful things and people, all under the guise of “not being divisive”. They would have to accept Joel Osteen and the Pope, as “brothers”.

2) Come out from among him, have nothing to do with him, don’t promote him to others, plead with him to come to his senses and repent, pray for him and help other preachers not to be influenced by him.
December 1 at 10:00am · Edited · Unlike · 4
Living Faith This video exposes “Bro.” Cope and Jed Smock
December 1 at 10:01am · Like · 1
Living Faith Jed says he goes to campuses to “preach the gospel”. Listen to him speak, and decide for yourself if God is pleased as Jed says “I don’t sin any more”, right after telling these students a filthy story that filthy people loved to hear coming from a “Christian”, providing for them a reason to mock Christianity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBKR6eRmljs
the best brother Jed speech ever at IU
brother jed telling story about his old gf margaret at Indiana University
December 1 at 10:06am · Like · 3 · Remove Preview
Living Faith: Rom_1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, WHO HOLD THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; BY REASON OF WHOM THE WAY OF TRUTH WILL BE EVIL SPOKEN OF… whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
2Pe 2:7 [God] delivered just Lot, VEXED WITH THE FILTHY CONVERSATION OF THE WICKED:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, VEXED his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
[Chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise the reproof of the Holy Spirit. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of the true glory of God.]

Eze 9:3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer’s inkhorn by his side;
Eze 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that SIGH AND THAT CRY FOR ALL THE ABOMINATIONS COMMITTED in the midst thereof.
Eze 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
Eze 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and BEGIN AT MY SANCTUARY. Then THEY BEGAN AT THE ANCIENT MEN which were before the house.
December 1 at 10:30am · Edited · Like · 1
Living Faith: Tit_1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not…
Tit 1:16 They PROFESS that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
December 1 at 10:20am · Like · 2
Jess Kienel There is such a beautiful dignity to the way scripture speaks of intimacy and such a precious “veiled,” way in which the intimacies of marriage are presented in scripture that maintains it’s intimacy, it’s personal nature and it’s beauty without painting it in what is commonly deemed “pornographic language.” I believe the language in the video from which this thread started are things that “don’t need to be said,” “shouldn’t be said,” and the last thing you want people who gather before you to hear the word of God is to have their minds filled with your “unclean speech,” and all the images that go with it. [AMEN!]
December 1 at 10:32am · Edited · Unlike · 5
Living Faith: amen, Jess Kienel!
December 1 at 10:27am · Like · 1
Living Faith: Jed Smock: “My ministry is an open book.”

His “ministry” is his idol, an open porno book. Many self-righteous pastors place “MYYY ministry” before God and walk in pride.
December 1 at 12:36pm · Edited · Like · 1
Neil Konitshek Very well stated Kerrigan & Living Faith.

If we do not take a stand against this kind of behavior then we are no different than the Muslims who do not speak out against 911 and other terrorists acts performed by Muslims.
December 1 at 11:54am via mobile · Like · 1
Jesse Morrell One of the first things I noticed about the open air preaching community was how divided everybody was. Groups that were very similar in their beliefs and practices are divided over various disagreements on style, doctrine, etc. From the very beginning my mentality has been to focus on our similarities and not our differences.[ecumenism] Open air preachers are indeed a small bunch and the more friends we have the better – overlooking our differences and being united on what we have in common.

To say that Brother Jed Smock has a sinful heart is going too far. At most I think you could try to argue that he can rethink some of the things that he says, that he needs better judgment in some areas, but not that his intentions are not pure. And attacking him for not being a pacifist is unnecessary. It is one thing to debate the issue but another thing to attack the man.

Brother Jed has been a great inspiration and mentor to me over the years and I have a tremendous amount of respect for him. I don’t think that he is being treated justly by some of you other open air preachers who are new to the scene compared to him. You guys come across to others as arrogant and condescending, as if you are better than other preachers, and your preaching is perfectly balanced in all areas, and are perfect examples for others to follow. When you become very divisive, attacking all other groups, and become separatists you come across as cultish. [This is blatant hypocrisy, for MUCH of this is exactly what this “good ol’ boys” cult does.]

I remember from my GNN days when they had the attitude that they were doing it right, every other street preacher or person who witnessed was doing it wrong if they were not doing it exactly like them, etc. This is pride and arrogance and is not the type of spirit we should have towards other preachers. [Cope claims to be HIGHER than a prophet, so who can do it as well as HE does?]

The Bible says, “Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren” 1 Tim. 5:1.

 

If you have a disagreement with an older open air preacher, you should come to them in humility and not arrogance and should gently correct him, not harshly bash him down.
[Many have to no avail. The Smocks, Cope, and their supporters continue to harden their hearts. According to what they themselves teach, God won’t deal with them that are froward in a gentle way.]
I once had an older open air preacher who has been doing it for some 40 years or so I believe try to debate me publicly over the issue of Once Saved, Always Saved. I decided to not even debate it with him at all out of respect. But if I were to debate him over that issue I would do so meekly and humbly.

[Psa_40:4 Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies. <What does this verse say of those who DO respect those who teach lies?]

If I had a disagreement with Brother Jed, I would not go about it in this manner. All of the attacks against Jed that I have seen from John, Kerrigan, and Tracy have been public on Facebook or elsewhere on the net. Have any of you ever had a private conversation with him about these things over the phone?

[1Ti_5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? ]

“Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.” Matt. 18:15

[This evil has affected thousands upon thousands for YEARS asnd HAS been confronted MANY times, and Jesse is WELL AWARE of the fact!]

I think that you guys are also being hypocritical in some of your points. I know that Kerrigan’s video says that you should not be in a “rebuking mode” all the time. Yet when I have preached with some of you guys, rebuke is all that I see. With some of you I don’t see gentle exhortations or even reasonable discourse with the students – just yelling and rebuking the whole time.

Then you attack a guy like Jim Gilles for his preaching style, where he uses more humor than you guys do, but at least his meetings are calmer because his own demeanor is calmer. He doesn’t really raise his voice too much and he engages the students in more meaningful discourse than just yelling and rebuking the entire time. So it seems like you guys have attacked other preachers for doing things like “rebuke mode” when you yourselves have done the same.

“Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” Matt. 7:5.

I’ve heard Kerrigan say in the open air that “The anus is an exit, not an entrance.” This would be considered explicit by some people. And I’ve heard John call girls “sluts” on campus, which is a type of vulgar slang word.

It seems a lot of the controversy is over being explicit in the preaching. Again, if you want to confront Jed on this do so in humility and exhort him. And don’t treat him as one who has a wicked heart but as a fellow brother who has made bad judgment. Try to correct his thinking, not rebuking his heart.

[Surely Jesse is aware that in Acts 8, there was a certain man, giving out that himself was some great one, to whom they all gave heed from the least to the greatest, saying, “This man is the great power of God.”
And to him they all had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. (with seducing spirits and doctrines of devils)
But Peter told him he would perish, and had neither part nor lot in the matter of imparting the things of God to others – because Peter correctly judged rightly that his heart was not right in the sight of God.
He also told that baptised man “Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.”

In Acts 13, Paul, by the holy Spirit, confronted a false prophet and said to him: “O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to PERVERT the right ways of the Lord?” Jed, Cindy, Cope, and the rest of you who support such filth and idolatry, when will YOU repent and stop perverting the right ways of the Lord?]

Personally, I find it completely necessary to be explicit in my preaching at times. When people say, “What is wrong with homosexuality?” and they are so deceived and ignorant that it is a genuine question, a simple, “The Bible says it is a sin” is not going to change their mind.
[Why can’t Jesse trust God’s word, rather than turn aside to Jed’s lies and evil, worldy-wise methods?

Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.]

But when I get into the more graphic details, using medical terminology, about the human anatomy and God’s intelligent design, their minds understand it. I ask the crowd, “What happens when a man is sexually aroused?” The crowd says, “He gets an erection.” I ask the crowd, “What happens when a woman is sexually aroused?” The crowd says, “She gets wet.” I say, “Yes, her body naturally lubricates itself.” I go on to explain, “Now, with an erect penis and a lubricated vagina, the vagina is prepared for the penetration of the penis. That is called INTELLIGENT DESIGN. But what happens to a man’s anus when he is sexually aroused? Nothing, that is why homos have to use lubrication or their own spit. Homosexuality is not God’s design.”

When I get into the graphic details of it all, nobody has ever even attempted to refute this argument. And mind you, I am not preaching at an elementary school but a university campus where these students are supposed to be mature enough for sex talks. And if they don’t get these talks from us, they will be getting them from somebody else on campus who does not have a Christian world-view. The topic is relevant and the explicit language is at times necessary.

[He can give no scriptural precedent of need for such explicit sex education in preaching because there is none. But even so, Jesse is well aware that Jed doesn’t stop there, but takes his “sex education” and explicit sexual stories and examples to outrageous levels while justifying himself – like he justifies carrying a crucifix/graven image.]

There is graphic and explicit language found in the Bible. For example:

“Behold, I am against thee, saith the LORD of hosts; and I will discover thy skirts upon thy face, and I will shew the nations thy nakedness, and the kingdoms thy shame.” Nah. 3:5.

“Therefore will I discover thy skirts upon thy face, that thy shame may appear.” Jer. 13:26.

[The language in scripture doesn’t even come CLOSE to what either he or some others in the good ol’ boy club practice!]
Now, what is the image that these scriptures put into your mind? For me it is a woman wearing a skirt, her skirt being lifted up over the top of her head, and her nakedness underneath being exposed. But as explicit as these statements are, they are found in the sermons of God’s prophets who were inspired by God Himself. And note that it was not just one prophet but two of them who felt lead by God to do this.

So I would not separate from Jed Smock because of his explicit language. Nor would I separate from Kerrigan’s group because of their “rebuking mode” style of preaching. I try to focus on our similarities, overlooking our differences.
December 1 at 12:38pm · Like · 5
Living Faith: Muslims did not bring three buildings down, or hit the Pentagon with planes, so none need apologize for it.
December 1 at 12:39pm · Like
Jesse Morrell By the way, Jess Kienel doesn’t think that open air preachers should use the biblical word “whore” but that it is OK for a Christian to walk around the beech with their shirt off and have girls in a bikini. Not really an example of purity and moral cleanness. And he thinks that limited atonement is a biblically defendable doctrine. He is the last person who should try to debate doctrine or open air preaching.
December 1 at 12:40pm · Edited · Like · 2
Jesse Morrell And Neil Konitshek, I saw a video of you going to one of Jed’s open air meetings, yelling and screaming at him, heckling him, and trying to steal his crowd. That was very shameful behavior. I certainly did not sense the love of Christ or the spirit of Christ in what I saw.
December 1 at 12:46pm · Like · 2
Jed Smock My lecture “Sex Ed with Brother Jed” is a parody of one of the most popular classes on campus, which is Human Sexuality. If these videos are so vulgar, offensive, vile, dirty and inappropriate to you pretenders, why are you posting and promoting them on Facebook? Methinks that your outrage is feigned. You should be indignant concerning the abominable behaviors that are being presented as normal in the classroom, which I am lampooning.
December 1 at 12:46pm · Like
Paul Mitchell When Jed chooses to publicly promote his ministry via videos and pictures he enters into the world of public criticism… a simple axiom! [This is true. So much for any need to go privately to him!].]
December 1 at 12:48pm · Unlike · 2
Jesse Morrell Paul, the one time we preached together in California at the beach I heard you continually call the crowd, “Stupid.” I mean, you repeated said things to sinners like, “You’re stupid. You’re dumb.”

Now, I didn’t really have a problem with it though I wouldn’t preach that way myself. But some of those who are criticizing Jed would also criticize your style of preaching.
December 1 at 12:51pm · Like · 2
Jed Smock Paul, the videos that are being posted were not made by my ministry. They are videos made and originally posted by students. Personally, I do not not mind that that they are posted, unless they take slices out of context.
December 1 at 12:51pm · Like
Living Faith: “Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.” Matt. 18:15
Jesse, this verse is not relevant to a situation such as a public preacher who does what he does OPENLY. Mat 18:15 is instruction to the victim of a secret sin against him, that not all are aware of.

“So I would not separate from Jed Smock because of his explicit language.”

Scripture in no way speaks as corruptibly and vulgar as the Smocks and some others as you suggest. I find the attempt to compare the two to border on blasphemy. You speak of Jed’s filth as one who either has not heard it, or whose conscience has been so seared with a hot iron , that it can’t warn you any more.
December 1 at 12:56pm · Edited · Like
Jed Smock BTW, If you want to see one of the best parodies ever, check out Sister Cindy’s, “The Condom Gospel.”
December 1 at 3:00pm · Edited · Like · 1
Janssen Moyo 1 John 4:5-6
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
December 1 at 1:23pm · Unlike · 2
Paul Mitchell JM: I have no problem at all with any criticism with what I proclaim…in fact I WELCOME IT as an opportunity to teach the less informed (or make legitimate corrections). Per my usage of the monickers “stupid and dumb” I also add “pathetic”. This is all relative to how “smart” most students see themselves and the reality of God’s view of their so-called intelligence. I tell the little ones the painful TRUTH…no matter their offense (or the weak wristed “Christians” that are thus shocked by such)
December 1 at 2:01pm · Like
Jed Smock Parodies can be an effective tool in the arsenal of the open-air preacher, especially a campus preacher since students tend to appreciate good parody. Parodies can be used for good or for ill. Tina Fey’s imitations of Sarah Palin were so influential they neutralized the initial boost she gave to the Republican ticket 2008. To this day there are those who confuse Fey’s act with Palin. [And some could confuse Jed’s stories with one in a smut mag]
I don’t believe the pretenders on this thread are so dull as to not understand my satire. Indeed, they are using the device themselves by caricaturizing my teachings, attempting to leave the impression that I have a perverted fixation on the sexual behavior of students. [Watch some videoes of hinm and judge for youself.] I am not ignorant of the devil’s devices to attempt to neutralize my influence, whether it comes from within or from without. I have had to endure such opposition from the beginning. I expect this hostility to increase, not decrease, which is a sign that The Campus Ministry USA is still having an impact. I have never had to be concerned about the admonition “woe unto you when all men speak well of you.”
December 1 at 2:09pm · Like · 2
Jed Smock I will have to confess that I started occasionally dumb and stupid after listening to Paul, Mitchell that is.
December 1 at 2:11pm · Like
Paul Mitchell JS: Either by direct post or that of others, I don’t see you disallowing such or commenting much either way. That said, and as you know, this as well as other things have been dealt with between us previous in a personal way. Beyond this, I see the public display of Cindy as a result of the venues we utilize and as such, when it becomes public via the current technology the gate is down. You, of course are free to correct the “less informed” as you see the need to bring your validation of such to light… (good luck!)
December 1 at 2:12pm · Like · 1
Jess Kienel Jesse Morrell, you don’t even know me or my beliefs. I do not believe in “limited atonement.” I don’t think it’s a sin to use the word “whore,” if you’re reading it from scripture. You, on the other hand call women whores because of the way they are dressed; and that has nothing to do with the gospel of our Lord. You also said I think it’s okay for women to wear “bikinis.” It doesn’t bother you to lie does it? I’ve never said that I think that’s okay or approved of it. Lastly, I don’t think it’s a problem for a Christian male to swim at the beach with his shirt off. At least you didn’t make that one thing up, but if you claim that’s a sin, please show me how and where in scripture that is. If not, every single thing you said about me in your comment was a LIE, and I would ask you kindly not to make things up about other people. Thank you.
December 1 at 3:15pm · Edited · Unlike · 3
Living Faith: Psa_4:2 O ye sons of men, how long will ye turn my glory into shame? how long will ye love vanity, and follow after falsehood?

Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Isa 5:21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
Isa 5:22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
Isa 5:23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
Isa 5:24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
Isa 5:25 Therefore is the anger of the LORD kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their carcases were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
December 1 at 3:21pm · Edited · Like
Jess Kienel Jesse Morrell has used the term “MILF,” while preaching, called women “whores,” told people “You look like you smoke Marijuana,” talked about women’s “camels toe’s,” told a woman who wouldn’t tell him if she was a virgin or not, “That answers my question.” He told a crowd “you don’t need prostitutes when you have sorority girls,” told a guy you could tell he was gay because you had “Gay-dar,” [radar to detect gays] and you can’t seem to ever preach without talking about male and female private parts, being sarcastic with people, and making fun of people. That’s not preaching, that’s not the gospel. Let’s be mature Christians and stick to the gospel of our Lord.
December 1 at 3:50pm · Edited · Unlike · 1
Living Faith: SEEKING ATTENTION BY USING THE CIRCUS MENTALITY is not a faithful presentation of the gospel. I can’t imagine Jesus or the apostles using such worldliness to “sell their product”; neither do we have scriptural precedent for the lunatic actions some dare to call “preaching the gospel”. An example of this is calling a person one knows nothing about a “whore”, a “fag”, or telling an entire group of complete unknowns “You are all going to helllllll” for no justifiable reason. Anyone can draw a crowd by starting a fire and tossing people in.
Another example of circus-ry are the strange dances, loud, shakey, shreeking high-pitched or beastly low-pitched language, and the shaking pointed finger used by these proud clowns who claim they never sin. “Forn-i- caaaaashunnnnnnn” [while stomping feet] is no way to quote 1Cor 6:9.
Theirs are even WORSE than the circus antics of such charlotans such as Benny Hinn, Rodney Howard Browne, or any other pastor who lays hands on [or swings a jacket at] emotional subjects to “slay them in the spirit”, while “catchers” wait nearby, ready to break the fall of the fallen, or who encourage uncontrollable laughter [“let the joy bubble come up outchur belly”], while assuring the deceived they have just been “soaked” with the Holy Spirit. They are all of them just a sickening, ungodly circus.
December 1 at 4:36pm · Like · 1
Paul Mitchell LF: For the origins of such see here: http://getbbt.org/Home%20Page.htm (Chapters 18, 19)

[ I found no link to any chapters at that link]
December 1 at 4:55pm · Like
Jesse Morrell Jess K, you are lying as you once debated me on the topic of limited atonement and you were defending it. Have you changed your beliefs so quickly?

Also, I don’t say woman are whores for they way they are dressed. That is a lie. I have told woman that they are ACTING like whores if they start STRIPPING while I am preaching. And it was for doing that that you first attacked me publicly. Apparently you don’t think that girls who are stripping in public should be told that they are acting like whores… unless you changed your mind about that as well?

I also recall that you once attacked Kerrigan also for using the word whore.

And last time that we talked about woman in bikinis, you said you didn’t have a problem with it. Have you changed your position on that as well?
December 1 at 5:01pm · Like · 1
Walter Lane Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21 Then Jesus beholding him LOVED HIM, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
December 1 at 7:19pm · Like
Faythe Butler This was a very interesting conversation and I think we all could learn a lot from this converstion. I admire that Kerrigan, John, and Tracy are preaching the gospel without having to use filthy type references to men and women’s bodies, or refer to others using filthy type speech etc. I respect this and it is wise and proper and I think we all know that this is the Christ like path to take. There were a lot of wise and humble words here from these three street preachers above and they should be heeded. Kerrigan etc do not claim that they were always perfect in their preaching style, but that they humbly received correction. I pray that others will carefully consider the words that men like Kerrigan said here, and humbly examine themselves, and also choose to receive correction. God gives grace to the humble, but those who willfully continue in prideful ways without honest examination are not headed down a wise path. God bless you all as we continue to learn and grow.
December 1 at 11:01pm · Unlike · 7
Jess Kienel Jesse If you ever thought I was defending “limited atonement,” it’s because you failed to properly understand what we were talking about. I have never believed in limited atonement, moreover my beliefs have always stood that anyone can be saved. I never talked to you about bikini’s being “okay.” First of all I don’t talk to you unless you bring me up on a thread or something. Second of all, why on earth would I talk to you about bikinis? You’re a liar and you made that up. Jesse Morrell said, ” I have told women that they are ACTING like whores if they start STRIPPING while I am preaching. Here is a video clip of you plainly calling a woman a “whore,” 3 different times, and you didn’t say “you dress like a whore,” (which shouldn’t be said either) It’s you just calling a girl a “whore,” for the way she was dressed when she asked you what she was doing wrong. Everyone, watch this video at 31:19 to see I told the truth about Jesse Morrell calling women whores for the the they are dressed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyeybfgDW6w [Jess K is not lying. I watched it. JM called a woman a whore three times because of how she was dressed.]
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
Classic Open Air Outreach Pt. 21: The Early Years – Vintage Footage – Jesse Morrell
SUBSCRIBE to OpenAirOutreach: http://www.youtube.com/subscription_center?add_use…See More
December 2 at 4:41am · Edited · Like · 1 · Remove Preview
Jim Gilles Paul Mitchell,
Since when did you not like Jed’s preaching?
December 2 at 12:49am · Like
Jim Gilles Ray & Jess Kienel,
Do you have any unedited videos of your preaching?
December 2 at 1:02am · Like
Jim Gilles Faythe Butler,
I am sorry to have to inform you of the simple fact that Kerrigan’s & John’s videos, for the most part, are either edited or staged. When I say staged I mean that the recording is of a non impromptu, pre determined subject matter in order to make it look like that is all that was preached that day. For example, I could go out on any day after the first day of preaching on campus and open up with a church style sermon for 30 minutes or so and make it appear that my church style sermon was what drew the crowd for me that day. But all of we campus preachers know that after the first day the students are waiting for your return and therefore you do not have to try as hard to draw the crowd with the typical hot topics of drugs, sex, booze and rock & roll. Just a little known trick of the trade in videography.

That is why I upload unedited videos.
December 2 at 11:45am · Edited · Like · 1
Jim Gilles Paul Mitchell,
Do you like Ruben’s preaching?
December 2 at 1:15am · Like · 1
John Moore I am sure that God will bring good from all of this but right now I concerned about the wrong that has been done and is continuing to be done on this thread…
[He means the rebuking of Jed Smock]
Jesse Morrell, I admire your willingness to comment as you have here, knowing that you have friends on both sides of this issue.

I consider John McGlone and Kerrigan as friends although we do disagree on a couple of issues… Yet we have set aside those issues and hopefully are co-laborers working for God and His kingdom.

I have known Jed and Cindy for some 20 years and have produced a couple of videos for them back in the day before youtube was the great tool it is today. However, some time ago I disagreed with Jed on a couple of issues and spoke with him PRIVATELY and although we still see things differently I love and respect both he and Cindy!

A year or two ago John McGlone contacted me privately expressing concerns about Jed sinning while preaching. He sent me links to a couple of videos that he and Kerrigan believed proved his point. I watched the videos and later replied to John that I could understand some people may disagree with Jed’s methods, but I DID NOT SEE ANY SIN in the approach used in their ministry!

Right now I am deeply grieved over what has taken place here. I have no doubt that God will use this for good but currently I am concerned about the wrong that has been done and still continues.

I disagree with the public attacks that have been made against Jed Smock and Jesse here in this thread.
December 2 at 1:39am · Like · 3
Kerrigan Skelly Jesse, I’m not sure if you saw my questions to you, from earlier in the thread, so I will post them again:

Jesse, there is nothing inherently wrong with “divisiveness”. Divisiveness can be good. Are you saying that “divisiveness” is always a bad thing or a “pitfall”? What if a preacher is doing things that don’t bring Glory to God? What if a preacher is obviously in some kind of sin? Surely there are open air preachers out there that you are “divisive” towards, right?

Jesse, you said, “Attacking him for not being a pacifist is unnecessary. It is one thing to debate the issue but another thing to attack the man.”

I don’t see this anywhere on this thread, but I have not read all of the comments. Can you point this out to me?
[It was not on this thread. I never read it.]
Jesse, you said, “I don’t think that he is being treated justly by some of you other open air preachers who are new to the scene compared to him. You guys come across to others as arrogant and condescending, as if you are better than other preachers and your preaching is perfectly balanced in all areas and are perfect examples for others to follow. When you become very divisive, attacking all other groups, and become separatists you come across as cultish.”

Who are you referring to, who is treating Jed “unjustly”? Personally, I think that I have been very respectful to him, when I have talked to him about our disagreements. And I don’t see anyone on here, who has come across as “arrogant and condescending”. I haven’t read all of the comments, but I have read all of John’s and Tracy’s comments. And I have made sure to pray over and look over my comments before posting, being very careful in what I am saying and how I am saying it. Also, who is coming across as if they are “perfect preachers”, who are “perfectly balanced”? Who is “attacking all other groups” and who is coming across as “cultish”? Please be specific and not general. You seem to act like there is never a reason to separate, and as if there is no correction needed in the open air community, at all. Is this true?

I definitely don’t think that I have done everything right in the open air, but I definitely strive to be blameless before God. I also don’t think that everyone else does it wrong. In fact, there are VERY FEW open air preachers that I have separated from. I can only think of 5 people, who I would have nothing do with, would not open air preach with, would not fellowship with, etc. It’s all because of what I believe is sin…not “methods”, “preferences” or even “doctrine”. I’d like to know of one person who thinks that “they do everything right and everyone else does everything wrong”. I don’t know of any. I know that John, Tracy and myself are constantly checking ourselves. We find room for improvement. We were just talking about incorporating “story telling” in the open air, the other day. Of course, we won’t be doing the explicit sexual story telling that Jed does.

You said, “If you have a disagreement with an older open air preacher, you should come to them in humility and not arrogance and should gently correct him, not harshly bash him down.”

Who has done this? I surely haven’t. I mostly asked Jed questions and I believe that I was very kind and gentle to him.

Jesse said, “All of the attacks against Jed that I have seen from John, Kerrigan, and Tracy have been public on Facebook or elsewhere on the net.”

I’d like to know of ONE TIME that I have “attacked” Jed. I have only asked him about his open air practices twice, in public, now. I already posted the link to the one time on your message board. The other time is right here before you.

You quoted “Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.” Matt. 18:15

Where did I ever accuse Jed of sinning against me? I don’t remember ever doing that…
[Jesse is well aware he’s misapplying this passage in a dishonest, hypocritical attempt to shelter Jed from any public criticism or correction, because of his own ungodly respect of persons.]
So, you tell us that we should go to Jed in private first about this matter of disagreement. And then you go on to tell us about all of the things that we are doing wrong, including accusing us of hypocrisy? It sounds like you need to read Matthew 7:1-5, not me. You’ve known me for a long time (about 7 years) and have never confronted me in private, concerning my supposed “hypocrisy” or being in “rebuke only mode”.

Maybe you didn’t watch the video that John posted, towards the beginning of this thread. I remember you telling me that you have never watched it. Is that still true? I’ve never claimed to have never of broken the “10 Pitfalls”. I know that I have and admitted such at the beginning of the video. I know that I have failed in the open air. The difference between me and Jed is that I am open to correction and I have changed. I don’t believe that I have preached in “rebuke only mode” for a long time. But then again, you haven’t preached with me very much in recent years. When you visited earlier this year, we only preached together once. We didn’t preach on the campuses at all. Please show me where I have done this recently. If you can show me this, then I will repent of this again.

You said, “I’ve heard Kerrigan say in the open air that “The anus is an exit, not an entrance.”

Yep, I have said that a couple of times, unfortunately. I don’t say it anymore, though. Unfortunately, I think that I got that one from you. And I’m pretty sure that you got it from Jed, right? I definitely don’t plan on ever saying it again.

You said, “And I’ve heard John call girls “sluts” on campus, which is a type of vulgar slang word.”

I don’t remember ever hearing John say that on a college campus, though that may be true. What do you think that you are accomplishing by bringing up these things that we have done in the past and do not attempt to justify? Do you really think that this compares to Jed doing these same things, over and over again and having no remorse or admission of wrong doing?
December 2 at 1:45am · Unlike · 1
Kerrigan Skelly You said, “And don’t treat him [Jed] as one who has a wicked heart but as a fellow brother who has made bad judgment. Try to correct his thinking, not rebuking his heart.”

You see, that is the thing, Jesse. I believe, as does Tracy, that what comes out of the mouth, proceeds from the heart. I don’t believe that a man who is right with God and has a pure heart could say a lot of the things that Jed says. Why you think that is possible, I have no idea.

You said, “Personally, I find it completely necessary to be explicit in my preaching at times. When people say, “What is wrong with homosexuality?” and they are so deceived and ignorant, that it is a genuine question, a simple, “The Bible says it is a sin” is not going to change their mind.”

Please tell me that you are not being serious, Jesse. You find it “completely necessary”? Quoting the Word of God, which is sharper than any double edged sword, dividing soul and spirit, bone and marrow and discerns the hearts of men is not sufficient? You “find it completely necessary” to be explicit? What Bible verse is this based upon? What example can you give me, where this is found? We may live in a wicked country, but not as wicked as the Roman Empire. Why didn’t the Apostle Paul describe the act of sodomy or fornication, for his hearers/readers when he was preaching or writing epistles?

I’m not even going to bother quoting from your next paragraph. I get disgusted, just reading it. [I did too.]You’re telling me that telling them that homosexuality is unnatural, shameful, vile and an abomination to God, isn’t good enough? Telling them what the Bible says isn’t good enough? God’s Word isn’t powerful enough to convict them of their abominable lifestyle? That’s not my experience. But, what happens if what you tell them now, “doesn’t work” eventually? Will you get even more explicit? Do you also put your pointer finger into a hole in the other hand, like Jed does, in this video?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBKR6eRmljs

You said, “The topic is relevant and the explicit language is at times necessary.”

Says who? Who says that “explicit language is at times necessary”? Are you saying that if preachers don’t use “explicit language” at times, that they are wrong? You would have to, since you are saying that it is “necessary”?

Then you quoted these two verses:

“Behold, I am against thee, saith the LORD of hosts; and I will discover thy skirts upon thy face, and I will shew the nations thy nakedness, and the kingdoms thy shame.” Nah. 3:5

“Therefore will I discover thy skirts upon thy face, that thy shame may appear.” Jer. 13:26

You call that “explicit language”. You’re joking, right? Come on, Jesse…to compare that to your paragraph about sex or what Jed is always saying in the open air is just crazy! There is simply no comparison, at all. It’s like comparing lions to house cats. And to justify such explicit language with these verses, is nonsense. Are you telling me, that you were reading through Nahum and Jeremiah one day, and thought to yourself, “I need to start talking explicitly about the act of sodomy and heterosexual sex, in the open air”? Or did you start talking like that in the open air, because you are simply following Jed’s example and now are seeking to justify such conduct by using these verses?

Even though I don’t deem this necessary, I would gladly talk to Jed about these issues on the phone or in person. I don’t think that the result will be any different. [He told me it wouldn’t be any different if I had confronted him, didn’t he? His heart has become granite.] Jed doesn’t think he is even in sin, yet I do, as do many others. If you think that Jed is only in error, than maybe you should talk to him about it.

Lastly, I will post a part of another comment that I made on this thread. I truly have no desire for “separation” or “division”. I truly wish that it were possible for this not to happen. So far, I don’t see a way. So, here is something that I was saying to Jed:

“I simply can’t accept some of the things you say or do in the open air. I don’t think that the Lord is pleased with such things and such things always grieve my heart. I truly have tried my best to “look over” such things, but simply haven’t been able to. By the grace of God, may I never!
I’ll tell you, it would make my life much “easier” if I did “accept” you and some of the things you say/do. I wouldn’t have to deal with conflict, concerning some of my friends or possible friends. I could have fellowship with just about every open air preacher out there…even if they cuss in the open air, tell dirty stories or punch sinners who attack them/their property. I wouldn’t have to think about separating from other preachers or actually take the action to separate from other preachers. I would be much more “liked” in open air preacher “circles”, etc., etc.

Oh well. That stuff means very little in light of being pleasing to my Lord. So, I will continue to separate from those who use your tactics. I have no desire for such separation, but see it as necessary. It grieves me, it really does.”
the best brother Jed speech ever at IU
brother jed telling story about his old gf margaret at Indiana University
December 2 at 1:45am · Unlike · 4 · Remove Preview
Jim Gilles Jess Kienel,
I just perused your wall and came across your video entitled, “Jess Preaching Holiness” and from there I found “Riot on St. George Street.” Where was the riot? Not bad for a beginner! Keep it up. I did not listen to the entire two videos but I did advance them several times throughout. How large of a crowd would you say has been your largest? It says that you have 12 videos on your channel. I watched “Jess assaulted by a lying “born again” woman..,” “Saint Zach with the truth,” “Saint” and several others. Were most of these recorded on the same day? I can tell by your 12 videos that you are a newbie.
December 2 at 2:01am · Edited · Like
[Gilles displays an obvious egotistic and condescending elitist mentality, and a dire lack of humility]

Annie Welch Britt LORD JESUS…have your way..Break what needs to be broken here..I pray YOU would be sought until righteousness is found. I ask that YOU would speak to hearts that are truly listening and that they would respond to YOUR voice.
‘Do not be overcome with evil ..but overcome evil with good”…

Praying for this situation…
To all listening, Respond to HIM. Be broken before Him, and choose wisdom. Remember that it is for HIM that we labor. It is before HIM that we shall stand or fall.. [ Too bad Annie didn’t practice this herself, but posted here for Jim Guilles after I banned him.]
December 2 at 3:16am via mobile · Unlike · 5
Patricia White Ecc 4:9 Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour.
Ecc 4:10 For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.
Ecc 4:11 Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone?
Ecc 4:12 And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.
December 2 at 7:02am via mobile · Like · 3
Living Faith: Paul Mitchell: “When Jed chooses to publicly promote his ministry via videos and pictures he enters into the world of public criticism… a simple axiom!”
RIGHT! The issue isn’t about private explicit stuff from Jed, but about his PUBLIC statements, so we need not take it to him privately.
December 2 at 9:11am · Like · 1
Living Faith: Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
December 2 at 9:12am · Like
Living Faith: This passage says it is not acceptable to the Lord to speak of the things done in secret by those in darkness. They should be reproved, but to speak explicitly about them is shameful.
December 2 at 9:14am · Like
Living Faith: 1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. [there are many more than three witnesses right here.]
1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
1Ti 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. [sadly, we see this here being exibited by the “good ol’ boys” club.]
December 2 at 9:18am · Like
Jim Gilles Since John McGlone’s non example driven private message to me I finally learned how to upload videos to you tube. [grasping at straws for an accusation?] At the time of John McGlone’s private message to me there were only a couple of you tube videos of me. One edited video from Jesse Morrell at Georgia Tech, my Super Bowl videos and some USI student’s edited clips of Jesse and I’s preaching at USI.
December 2 at 10:05am · Like · 1
Jim Gilles Kerrigan Skelly,
We all know that you hide behind John McGlone and Tracy Bays and have both of them do your dirty work.
December 2 at 10:07am · Like · 1
Patricia White Jim, what is double covering? Is that like a Burka? Thanks.
December 2 at 10:08am via mobile · Like · 3
Jim Gilles Kerrigan Skelly,
You violated your own 10 pitfalls just recently on a you tube thread and I called you out on it. You stated that Ruben was justified in calling a whore a whore while he preached at Mardis Gras and that you would have called her a whore as well. I even copied and pasted it to my fb wall. You fb blocked me over 1 year ago because I called you out as a tyrant in trying to declare that using the words “whore” and “homo” were sinful and a matter worthy of disfellowship.

John McGlone just recently used the word slut.

We mature open air veterans have seen your types come and go like a rotating door. We have seen the prideful, petty jealousy of getting caught up in trying to micro manage and critique everyone else’s preaching when it comes to secondary issues. That is why we mature open air veterans do not engage in such but we just sit back and watch all of the hypocrisy from those of you who do. [pride running strong as Niagra] December 2 at 11:01am · Edited · Like · 1 [so, THAT’S what Guilles has been doing here, huh? Just “sitting back and watching” all those reproving the GOBC fall away into hypocrisy? No snobbery there, huh?]
Jim Gilles Patricia White,
Yes.
December 2 at 10:21am · Like · 3
Paul Mitchell Gilles: My separation from Jed and those like him has been an evolution beginning with the train-wreck with Bob Engle. It is also represents a more pro-active rejection of the ecumenical position(s) Bob holds as I/we developed more strengthened positions doctrine-wise. As far as Ruben goes, I also do not like his “big tent” approach and not all he says is what I would say, but at least his words are more on the subject(s) and not meant as as crowd developing gimmicks. Our main separation issues with him at this point are the way he and Jim Webber tried to disrupt my daughters wedding (so we, having lost confidence in his judgment, barred him from his teaching slot in our Bible study). Beyond this, he was finally shown the door owing to the un-brotherly way I was treated by him. This when Jim Webber again got his mouth/judgment(s) where they again were found to land him in the ditch (in challenging my actual faith), and lil’ Rube trotted along behind him.
December 2 at 10:28am · Like
Paul Mitchell Jim Gilles again…for more on the doctrine stuff see here: http://getbbt.org/Home%20Page.htm
BASIC BATTLE TRAINING
getbbt.org
December 2 at 10:30am · Like · Remove Preview
Jim Gilles Paul Mitchell,
I am sorry to hear of your distancing from Ruben after all of those years.
December 2 at 10:32am · Like · 1
Faythe Butler I have wanted this subject (street preaching concerns) to be more openly talked about, for there are a lot of concerns, as we are seeing on this thread. However right now we need to remember Annie’s prayer that she prayed above which is one of the best posts on this thread. We need to pray about this situation, because street preachers influence many lives and they need to make sure they are setting the right example:

“LORD JESUS…have your way..Break what needs to be broken here..I pray YOU would be sought until righteousness is found. I ask that YOU would speak to hearts that are truly listening and that they would respond to YOUR voice.
‘Do not be overcome with evil ..but overcome evil with good”…

Praying for this situation…
To all listening, Respond to HIM. Be broken before Him, and choose wisdom. Remember that it is for HIM that we labor. It is before HIM that we shall stand or fall…”
December 2 at 10:36am · Like · 3
Jim Gilles Paul Mitchell,
The “disruption” over your daughter’s wedding was over the fact that a lot of us were planning on attending and/or sending wedding gifts to your daughter. Once we found out that your daughter was not getting legally married within the state of California by not obtaining a marriage license, we backed out. You had assured us through your “copious amounts of research” that what your daughter planned to do was legal in California. Through our own research we discovered that getting married in the state of California without a marriage license was illegal, and that anyone who performs a marriage within the state of California without a marriage license is also committing a crime. You assured us that the pastor of the church knew that you were not going to have a marriage license. We found out that was not the case, and when the pastor was informed of that fact, the pastor backed out, and you had to find another church at the last minute.

I was the one who suggested that they simply get married in a different state that did not require marriage licenses, such as LA. I do believe, that after their wedding in CA, your daughter recorded some legal instrument of marriage in LA.
December 2 at 10:53am · Like
Jim Gilles Paul Mitchell,
I am sorry to learn of your separation from Ruben after all of those years.
December 2 at 10:54am · Like · 1
Jed Smock When are you pretenders going to stop posting these “vile and dirty” videos? What someone dubbed “the best Brother Jed speech ever at IU” has already been posted twice–you know, the one with the finger action. BTW, would it be OK if I just went back to using electrical cords for this demonstration?
December 2 at 10:58am · Like
Jim Gilles For the record, I do not recall ever meeting Kerrigan Skelly or Tracy Bays. I do recall meeting John McGlone at least one time at a conference in Atlanta, GA.
December 2 at 11:08am · Like · 1
Patricia White To all my brothers — praying that these issues and relationships be healed.
December 2 at 11:17am via mobile · Like · 4
David K Benoit Jed – Electrical cords or fingers, what does this have to do with presenting the gospel? I have to tell you that I found the video to be “vile and dirty” and I pray that my children never encounter someone presenting things in the manner that you did there. I have preached at all sorts of events with my children and they might have heard some sort of foul language shouted at us, but speaking like that? Sure, you could intimate that these college kids already know this stuff, and my question would be then why bring it up again? Does it somehow endear you to them? I’m missing it honestly. AND, I have to say that I am glad I do.
I do have to say as well, that it is greatly concerning to me that you seem to be “untouchable” in this matter, and won’t even acknowledge that there is a POTENTIAL that what you are doing is incorrect and that you would reconsider it with the light of the Scriptures again. I pray that my understanding and interpretation of your responses is incorrect.
December 2 at 11:18am · Like · 6
Jim Gilles Jess Kienel,
You wrote, “I don’t think it’s a problem for a Christian male to swim at the beach with his shirt off.”

Jim: Do you swim with your shirt off? What do you wear when you go swimming in public?

How is it not a violation of God’s command to be modestly appareled?
December 2 at 12:16pm · Edited · Like
Jim Gilles John Moore,
Thanks for revealing how that John McGlone works his division behind the scenes. [still grasping at straws to accuse anyone trying to reprove Jed Smock or any other member of the good ol’ boy’s club]
December 2 at 12:19pm · Like
David K Benoit Jim Gilles – It is possible that John McGlone and the fellowship there had already determined to not fellowship with Jed Smock due to these issues and therefore he would have just been warning against what they determined to be a necessary division. Not much different than what you described above with the wedding and Paul’s daughter. I will confess that I am not familiar with any of these situations but wanted to suggest that maybe things aren’t as you are seeing them presently. Hope this helps.
December 2 at 12:47pm · Like
Living Faith: Jed Smock: “Parodies can be an effective tool in the arsenal of the open-air preacher, especially a campus preacher since students tend to appreciate good parody. [Gal 1:10] Parodies can be used for good or for ill. Tina Fey’s imitations of Sarah Palin were so influential they neutralized the initial boost she gave to the Republican ticket 2008. To this day there are those who confuse Fey’s act with Palin.”

Indeed. And just as Tina Fey’s act was able to NEUTRALIZE the effect of Sarah Palin, so does every filthy-mouthed hypocrite claiming to represent Jesus also neutralize the gospel of God, and make it of none effect, since the world confuses a hypocrite’s circus act with real Christianity.
December 2 at 12:53pm · Like
Gregory Owen Wait a minute, if God instituted marriage why should Christians be required to seek a permit (permission) from the state. The state would overstep their limited authority in doing so. [AMEN]
December 2 at 12:56pm · Unlike · 2
Jim Gilles David K Benoit,
I have learned a long time ago that I will never learn things that I am not personally familiar with.

I do not understand what you are trying to say.

Paul Mitchell’s daughter had to do with CA criminal code. Has anyone alleged criminal conduct by anyone?
December 2 at 12:59pm · Edited · Like · 1
Jim Gilles Gregory Owen,
Do you have a marriage license, certificate or some other recorded instrument of marriage? Were you married in a state that declared that any marriage ceremony performed without a marriage license was a crime?
December 2 at 1:02pm · Edited · Like
Gregory Owen I do have a marriage license, but I do so by choice, not by compulsion.
December 2 at 1:02pm · Like
David K Benoit Jim – I’m sure you separate yourself from men that you would consider to be false preachers or sinful men. Just as you would distance yourself from something that is criminal, i.e. sinful, so they MAY have separated themselves from something they as a fellowship deemed to be sinful, i.e. Jed’s activity in his preaching. If that is the case, then wouldn’t it be correct to warn others of this error? The answer would be yes, just as you did with others in relation to Paul’s error of breaking the law, i.e. sinning. Does that make sense?
December 2 at 1:02pm · Like
David K Benoit Let’s not digress this thread to a marriage license debate. Start a new one for that.
December 2 at 1:03pm · Like · 1
Jim Gilles Gregory Owen,
Sorry, but I find your answer to be double talk.
December 2 at 1:04pm · Like
Jim Gilles David K Benoit,
We did not separate from Paul Mitchell nor his daughter over it. We simply decided not to be legal witnesses of an illegal act. The only one here who has testified that they separated from anyone over the marriage was Paul Mitchell. He stated that he separated from Ruben Israel.

CA actually made it illegal to marry or to perform a marriage without a marriage license.
December 2 at 1:09pm · Like
Gregory Owen What are you going to do when they make street preaching illegal in CA? [GOOD QUESTION!]
December 2 at 1:10pm · Unlike · 2
David K Benoit Jim Gilles – I understand and thank you for the clarification. Maybe my comparison with the wedding example wasn’t perfect, but hopefully you see the point I was trying to make. Basically, I think that the judgement you levied against John McGlone could be faulty without having all the information on where they stood as a fellowship. I’m assuming of course that you would warn other believers against false teachers and if so, then you could easily see why John may have been doing what he was in his communication with John Moore.
December 2 at 1:16pm · Like
Jim Gilles Gregory Owen,
Exactly as I do now on campi, like VA Tech, that require sponsorship only for preaching. I have two choices, stay away or go get arrested. Just like many do regarding Sharia Law controlled countries. Stay away or get your head chopped off.
December 2 at 1:51pm · Like
Jim Gilles David K Benoit,
Oh, now I see. Sure, I was only bringing up John McGlone’s divisive, behind-the-scenes behavior because John McGlone stated that he had to disassociate with me because I was too divisive.
December 2 at 1:56pm · Like
Paul Mitchell Gilles: Without getting into the Gettysburg Address on this marriage thing it was my position that it mattered little one way or another because I believe that the salient issue is Godly blessing and not State sanctioning. That said, your participation in such is remembered, so don’t look to teach in our Bible study anytime soon (and as an aside I/we DID NOT separate from lil’ Rubie because of this…re-read the post!).
December 2 at 2:28pm · Like
Jim Gilles Paul Mitchell,
If you recall, I did not care one way or another either saving for the fact that CA has a statute forbidding the performance of marriages without a license. That is why I recommended other states that did not have such a statute.
December 2 at 2:59pm · Like
Tracy Bays It’s seems very hypocritical to me, for George Smock to accuse Living Faith of perpetrating a ruse, by having a pseudonym for a FB account. Especially since George does an even more obtuse ruse himself, by going under the name “Jed”. If George thinks it deceptive, for someone to be called Living Faith on FB, then how can he justify being called a name that is not his true name, almost all the time? I don’t get it. [me either]
December 2 at 4:03pm · Like · 1
Tracy Bays I am working four 12 hour days this week. I will not be able to perfectly follow this post. I’ll check on it, when I am able.
December 2 at 4:05pm · Edited · Like
Annie Welch Britt Revival will only come through brokenness …Many men in the past who have seen this happen were first very broken before HIM, and it seemed they were always motivated by HIS wonderful nature and character…not any kind of personal agenda. If revival is our goal, we must be prepared to be broken first..
December 2 at 4:13pm via mobile · Like · 3
Jim Gilles Paul Mitchell,
You just proved to the world that you separate over who did and who did not come to your daughter’s wedding when you stated, “That said your participation in such is remembered so don’t look to teach in our Bible study anytime soon (and as an aside I/we DID NOT separate from lil’ Rubie because of this…re-read the post!).”
December 2 at 5:40pm · Like
Jim Gilles Tracy Bays,
I am afraid that you are not jesting in your second to last comment.
December 2 at 5:41pm · Like
Faythe Butler Hi Jim Gilles, I think you may have had a bit of a misunderstanding above concerning the editing of the videos that Kerrigan and John made. I believe you mentioned that Kerrigan and John edit their videos to exclude filthiness that Kerrigan or John may say. However, I had a personal conversation with John about this, and to set the record straight, they do not edit because of filthy things they say because they choose to walk in the Spirit and not say anything of that nature (I’m not saying they’ve never made a mistake in the past, but that they’ve humbly received correction, and repented of any past errors, and now simply preach the powerful truths from God’s word without having to refer to any filthy type speech in their preaching). They **only** edit their videos because the sinners they preach to are getting filthy or explicit in their language towards them, and they do not want too much of this to get on their public videos.

I know that none of us are perfect and we’re all still growing in truth, but our goal though should be to please God and obey Him as perfectly as we can possibly understand. I think we can all admire Jed’s fervency, and passion….I admire it greatly! But many of us simply have a concern about some of the language he uses, and that other street preachers are “ok” with this. I still have hope that Jed will sit back and listen to this conversation and think it all through, and choose a more professional and more biblical way to present the gospel message. I can see why you respect and admire him, but we all need correction from time to time. I can’t tell you how much correction I’ve received over the last number of years, and I always strived to think things through, change where necessary, and seek to choose the path that would please God the most, and not care about what men think, but what God thinks. God bless you!
December 2 at 5:49pm · Like · 1
Jim Gilles Faythe Butler,
Sorry, but I think that it is beyond cowardly for you to have to speak for John McGlone. But, such is what they have become. I am man enough to speak for myself.
[

‘Sorry, but…”?! How over the top of ungodly was THAT? So “man enough “Gilles dares to ASSUME that Faythe is speaking FOR John McGlone, and accuses John of being beyond a coward? Gilles must either produce evidence, or repent, admitting he was wrong to be a false accuser! But why hasn’t Gilles been consistent, saying the same thing about Jesse Morrell’s fawning defense of Jed Smock?]

Have you seen campus videos of John using the slut word? Have you seen campus videos of all three preaching that all military people are necessarily sinners and therefore worthy of Hell for being in the military? Have you seen campus videos of Kerrigan and John McGlone confessing that they receive military pensions and disability right after they condemn all military people as sinners? Have you seen campus videos of all three condemning anyone who voted in the last election cycle? Have you seen campus videos of all three in full “rebuke mode?” If not, where is the footage of them behaving this way!!

Here is what I said, “I am sorry to have to inform you of the simple fact that Kerrigan’s & John’s videos, for the most part, are either edited or staged. When I say staged I mean that the recording is of a non impromptu, pre determined subject matter in order to make it look like that is all that was preached that day. For example, I could go out on any day after the first day of preaching on campus and open up with a church style sermon for 30 minutes or so and make it appear that my church style sermon was what drew the crowd for me that day. But all of we campus preachers know that after the first day the students are waiting for your return and therefore you do not have to try as hard to draw the crowd with the typical hot topics of drugs, sex, booze and rock & roll. Just a little known trick of the trade in videography. [A trick Gilles has apparantly employed, for him to know so much about. Again, no documented evidence, just empty accusation. Shameful.]

That is why I upload unedited videos.”
December 2 at 6:03pm · Edited · Like · 1
Paul Mitchell Gilles…you need to learn how to READ!
December 2 at 6:51pm · Like
Faythe Butler Thanks for commenting Jim. I know John has repented of using the slut word and no longer does that.

I fully agree with you that it is very wrong if someone judges that someone is worthy of hell for being in the military and I do hope that they will reconsider their stand there. [ “Support our troops” is a meaningless platitude, and whether those who like to repeat it or display it on their cars realize it or not, it now amounts to saying “support Obama”, since the troops follow his orders.]

I believe that they may have been stronger rebukers in the past, but that they have reconsidered this, and are preaching more fully from the powerful word of God moreso now.

I won’t comment on the last paragraph because I can’t make a proper judgment there, and would prefer if Kerrigan or John would speak concerning that matter.

All I’m really saying is that we all need to look at ourselves and examine ourselves from time to time. We all have strengths and we need to keep strong in that, (and according to the Bible, the greatest strength is love as described in 1 Cor. 13). But we all have areas we need to work on too. I know I’ve had to look at so many area of my life and truly seek to earnestly change. I’m still learning and growing. But the bad thing is when we don’t recognize our faults and try to change. I do admire that Kerrigan and John have examined their street preaching methods and saw where they had some wrong areas, and sincerely changed. They may still have some areas to work out as we all do. But I am concerned when people think that they have it “all perfect” and they do not need to examine themselves or reconsider or humbly seek God on the matter. This is what deeply concerns me the most. That sort of attitude is not what God desires from us….

I appreciate you sharing and have a good night.
December 2 at 6:53pm · Like · 2
Jed Smock David, the fingers and electrical cords are visual aids to demonstrate the correct usage of our private parts. The demonstration has more to do with preaching the law than it does preaching to gospel.
I have addressed the questions you raise in previous posts on this thread, which you may not have read. There is a lot to follow on the thread; I would suggest that if you are going to enter into the dialogue, you read it all, at least everything I have written. Did you read what I had to say about “Sex Ed with Brother Jed” being a parody of the Human Sexuality courses offered on campus?
Students are confused about the basics of anatomy and sexuality. They may never have heard sexual education from a Christian world view or even one simply according to the Natural Law. They think that sodomy is normal. They are under the impression that the anus is a sexual organ! They think that eating sperm provides protein and nourishment to their systems. They think marriage can be with two people of the same sex. Most of the females do not understand that the primary function of their breasts is to nurse babies, not for their “boyfriends” to be fondling. Of course, I make it clear that the breasts serve a secondary function for their husbands (Proverbs 5:18-20; Song of Songs.). I do make it clear, however, that, “If there is a baby, the baby gets first dibbies on the titties.”
We live in a day when women are leaving their natural use (to be wives and mothers); they do not seem to know that their vagina is for making babies and they have a womb for carrying a baby. Many of them think that the baby is simply tissue to throw away like one might toss a dirty Kleenex. I have to inform the boys that if they are not married, that their penis is strictly for urinating. Once they get married, the penis takes on a whole new dimension. They are ignorant of these basics.
Many of the girls are considering breast implants, which have health hazards and are expensive. I teach that their breasts could virtually double in size, if they would simply find a husband and get married and get pregnant.
And so goes with “Sex Ed with Brother Jed.” The whole lecture I assume can be pieced together through looking at youtube videos.
None of this lecture is intended to titillate but to correct the perverts in a humorous and entertaining manner [circus], while making very serious points. What the students are doing with their private parts is vile and dirty, not my lecture. [But he DOES get into that and OFTEN] This lecture is not designed for normally developed children. It is designed for college students and older, many of whom have the mentality of junior high students.
Admittedly, this lecture would not be appropriate for Sunday school or in the sanctuary of the church. However, I suspect that it is needed there.
Hopefully, my explanation will help you better understand; realistically, I am probably simply giving my critics more fodder. I will address the “untouchable” issue in another post, if I have time.
December 2 at 6:59pm · Like · 1
John McGlone Faythe Butler, the Bible commands us to be perfect. Matt 5:48 As I explained you don’t need to defend me to Jim. Thanks for your courage to try and speak on my behalf to him, please don’t do so anymore thank you. In fact, I would prefer no one would defend me to his accusations and assertions. I will let the Lord judge between him and me.

To answer your charges Jim Gilles.

1. I have used many words I have regretted in the open air including but not limited to slut and whore, but I have repented of doing that and will no more.

2. You have not tried to understand our passive non resistant position and your misrepresent it most every time you speak of it as you have here on this thread. We preach that NO Christian should be in the military murdering/killing people.

3. I don’t need to ‘confess’ I receive a military retirement.

4. We choose not to vote by our freedom to do so.

5. I freely admit that I fully rebuke certain crowds because they will not humble themselves to receive the truth. But, we always speak of the cross of Jesus, His mercy, the Gospel, His resurrection, etc. even during those types of crowds where it seems only a rebuke would apply.

6. We have never staged a video as you falsely accuse. We don’t need to conduct ourselves as you think is necessary to draw a crowd. I have thousands of hours of preaching I have not uploaded in 10 years of preaching. I do videos for to encourage the body of Christ and to bring Him glory.

Lastly, I will not respond any further on these issues, thanks.
December 2 at 7:04pm · Edited · Unlike · 2
Jed Smock David,
I can understand and accept that some might think my teaching and wording on these matters are inappropriate, unwise or lacking in good judgment. However, I do not have much time for these boys who consider it sinful to say, for instance, “The anus is a exit hole; it is not an entry hole.”
I have people whom I respect and with whom I have had long relationship from which I welcome correction. I scarcely know Kerrigan, Tracy or John. I have meant them briefly on a few occasions. I have had several telephone conversations with John concerning campus logistics and free speech issues. I have had about two hours of fellowship with Ray.
My closet advisor is my wife, Cindy. We were talking about this thread the other day. Her comment was, “Don’t let those guys discourage you. I love your ‘Sex Ed with Brother Jed’ lecture. It is really anointed.” Cindy is actually the one who wrote, “The Parable of the Five Dormies,” so she knows about these things.
My board members are free to speak into my life. One of them uses stronger language then I. He uses a few terms which I would not use. However, his explanation makes sense. I understand what he is doing. I would never consider disfellowshipping him or accusing him of being sinful in using these questionable words. We have talked it over on several occasions. Sometimes I do make adjustments when I am working with other preachers so that they are not put in a position to have to defend what they might consider inappropriate or not understand.
It seems that my critics on this thread believe that since I do not receive their admonitions that I will not receive correction from anyone, which is hardly the case. December 2 at 7:36pm · Like · 2 [So Jed receives “correction” from someone that uses stronger language than he uses, and from his wife, who practices and teaches him from the same perverse mindset “Bro Cope” has!]

Jim Gilles Faythe Butler,
Oh my, so now using the slut word is sinful too. Kerrigan already condemned God for daring to use the word whore. Kerrigan stated above that he will no longer state that the rectum is made for excretion not for intake as if that is now sin too. Do we not see that we have been Oprahized??? It is now sin to state the God given, natural design for the human anatomy. Do you not see that the world is trying to render you impotent??? Sorry, but real men do not allow the Devil and the world to feminize them!
[Gilles declares himself a “real man”! Never mind that he’s a vile false accuser.]

Next you will condemn Gene Antonio’s book entitled, “The Aids Cover Up” because he states the medical consequences of queerdom. I only use “queerdom” because it drives Oprahized wimps crazy. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&#8230;

Or the Family Research Counsel’s publication on the medical consequences of queerdom.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&#8230;

Or Patrick Buchanon’s book on “AIDS” because it tells about the medical consequences of queerdom. Or any other AIDS/QUEER research paper. Where does this nonsense stop? You are allowing a demonic culture to dictate to you how and what you can say and you do not even see it! Over a year ago I had someone rebuke me here on fb for describing the Super Bowl crowd that I preached to as “drunken perverts.” If a preacher listens to every one of you critics they will become what you say that you hate in preachers…a bunch of political cowards.
December 2 at 7:47pm · Edited · Like · 2
Jim Gilles John McGlone,
Why have you never given any examples of my preaching that you object to? You went from being a welcomed preaching guest in my home to disassociating with me in less than two weeks. Why? Who told you to do an about face?
December 2 at 7:56pm · Like · 2
Living Faith: Jed’s admission that one of his board members [such as “Bro” Cope~some of the few people who he allows to “correct” him] uses even stronger language than he does, and the idea that he won’t receive reproof from those he barely knows manifests a heart condition. Peter was rebuked publicly by Paul, whom he scarcely knew, and who had even persecuted the church, but he received it, knowing it was from the Lord. Pride won’t let a person receive godly reproof for the most carnal reasons, including partiality.
December 2 at 8:17pm · Like · 1
Living Faith: John McGlone: “We preach that NO Christian should be in the military murdering/killing people.”[AMEN!]

So do all Christians. No murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
December 2 at 8:20pm · Edited · Like · 3
Ross Jackson I truly don’t see what was so wrong or unbiblical about this video myself.
December 2 at 8:31pm · Like · 3
Jed Smock I would certainly not receive rebuke from someone who thought being in the military was wrong for a Christian. None of you guys come close to St. Paul. IF I received rebuke from all those who have rebuked or corrected me over the years, I would be in utter confusion. [Smock is in confusion, carrying a graven image, and conducting a circus side show with his chief councellor wife, claiming they spread the gospel]
December 2 at 8:42pm · Like · 5
Jess Kienel Jim, when I am swimming at the beach I don’t have a shirt on. When I go surfing sometimes I use a rash-guard. It’s not a violation of Christian modesty because “There is a time and a place for every purpose under heaven.( Ecclesiastes 3:1) Couple that with “To the pure all things are pure.” (Titus 1:15) Leave Abraham to Issac and leave me to myself. Speaking of clothes “Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another.” (1 Peter 5:5) Judging by your previous comments to other saints I would say you need to “put some clothes on.”
December 2 at 9:46pm · Edited · Like · 2
Living Faith: Gregory Owen to Jim Guilles: “What are you going to do when they make street preaching illegal in CA?”
An appropriate question directed at one who honors the authority of a state above God’s authority.
December 2 at 10:18pm · Like
Jesse Morrell Kerrigan Skelly

To answer your question no, I do not believe that division is always wrong of course. There can be both necessary and unnecessary division. I fully understand separating from someone who is in blatant and unrepentant sin. But I think that the comments against Jed are going too far, like saying that he has a wicked heart, etc. His motive appears to me to be to teach these students about proper sexual behavior and he does so in a way that is entertaining and captivating to them. His motive does not appear to me to be selfish or sinful. You guys come across as if you think his motive is to be a sexual pervert, when he is rebuking perversion not being perverted.

If Jed is rebuking sodomy and says, “A penis does not belong inside an anus,” I do not see this as filthy words coming out of a filthy heart, as you guys apparently think. He is describing a filthy sin and is rebuking perversion, but he himself is not being filthy and perverted. You may rebuke sodomy with a different choice of words, but rebuking sodomy is evidently Jed’s motive. [Jesse reminds me of a president’s press secratary (front man), smoothing over lies and inproprieties to make them acceptable to the public.]

It would be one thing if you said that what Jed does at times is unnecessary, innappropiate, is poor taste, or lacks good judgment. But to say that he does it out of a wicked heart is not true and is going too far. I simply do not see that. Knowing Jed personally, those kind of comments against him are very harsh and uncalled for.
[Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.]

I’ve known Jed for many years now. I first preached with him in 2005 and have preached with him since then every year. I’ve been with him on campus many times. I’ve stayed at his house many times. We’ve had many meals together. And because of my personal experiences with him, nobody could convince me that Jed has a “wicked heart” or that he doesn’t mean well.

His love and commitment to Christ far surpasses many Christians that I know. He has not only been preaching on campuses for 40 years full-time, but he is the first preacher who hits the campuses when they open again and is the last preacher to leave the campuses when they finish for the year. He plans his schedule so he can be in the state that opens the earliest and in the state that closes the latest. And he has never come across to me to be doing any of this because he has a wicked heart, but because he has a love for Christ and souls. I know of many of the personal and painful sacrifices that he has had to make for the ministry that God has called him to. [Apparantly, the reason Jesse tolerates Jed’s ecumenism, his respect for Billy Graham, his idolatrous crucifix, and his outrageous perversion of the gospel – via filthiness, and worldly “wisdom”, and theatrics – is because of a heart that doesn’t abhor evil. As is the mother, so are her daughters. Birds of a feather flock together.]

My understanding is that neither you, John McGlone, nor Tracy Bays have ever been with Jed on campus before. You have never heard him in person preach for hours. I don’t think you have ever met Jed in person, I don’t know. But he is on campus 5 hours a day, 5 days a week, and his preaching is very good. To try to portray it as if Jed goes to campus and just tells “dirty stories” or that his open air is just a “porno film” is an exaggeration. Speaking on human sexuality, using medical terminology, is a very small part of his open air preaching.

I’ve learned a lot from Jed Smock over the years. It was when I met him in 2005 that I learned how to campus preach – along with meeting Jim Gilles in 2006 who I also learned much from on how to open air on campus. I count them as very precious brothers and think that you guys have been judging them too harshly. That’s my opinion and perspective.
[He claimed in this thread that he hasn’t called women whores for how they were dressed, but a video posted here, showing him calling a woman a whore three times for that very reason proved his claim false.]
That’s really all that I wish to say on this topic. I have nothing more to add, defend, or debate. I’ve been grieved over what I believe is unnecessary division amongst brethren who are serving the same Lord and have at essence the same message…
Yesterday at 12:23am · Edited · Like · 6
John Moore Jesse, again well put.
Yesterday at 1:04am via mobile · Like · 1
Annie Welch Britt Amen Jesse.
Yesterday at 1:28am via mobile · Like
Charlene Midling Ruttan When I was very young living in my father’s house & my siblings & I would have a disagreement & quickly turn into name calling. My father would say…’The devil is laughing at you all’ and silence would fall upon us. How many will scrutinize everything that was said & take it to God in prayer? I respect everyone here & know that you all Love the Lord. It is heartbreaking to read this thread. I pray each will take this to God in prayer. Shalom brothers
Yesterday at 1:56am · Unlike · 3
Jesse Morrell The devil’s strategy with the church has always been to “divide and conquer.”
Yesterday at 1:57am · Edited · Like · 4
Annie Welch Britt Lets stand in the gap Jesse
Yesterday at 1:58am via mobile · Like
John Moore I must also ask Ray White, who is now known as “Living Faith” and was formally known on FB as “Smashing Idols” WHY have you not used your real name and why do you change the name you go by in FB? It raises concerns to me…
Jim Gilles asked me to post the following as Living Faith has blocked him...[Must these people be told that it’s outrageously disrespectful to post for one who’s been banned??]
Here is what Jim Gilles ask me to post…

John, Please post the below on the Living Faith thread as he blocked me as soon as I discovered that he used to be smashing idols.
[It “raises concerns” in John Moore’s mind that I use nics on a public medium, but he’s not at ALL ashamed to post on my string for a person I banned for a good reason, which is revealed in the private conversation I started with Gilles to answer his question.]
Conversation started today

Living Faith
Jim, was I the Ray your question was directed to here?
Jim Gilles: “Ray & Jess Kienel,
Do you have any unedited videos of your preaching?”

Jim Gilles
Yes.

Living Faith
I don’t know how to edit videos. You can find the few I’ve made on you tube on my “livingfaith2 channel. they are made at home. I have not videod myself when I have preached to others.
http://www.youtube.com/user/LivingFaith2/videos

Jim Gilles
[his fangs came out glittering]
I am not interested in anything that you have to offer to me here in private. I am not a coward who is afraid of what I do. I could care less what or how you preach in public. I fully believe Phil 1:14-18.
Php 1:14 And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
Php 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
Php 1:16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
Php 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
Php 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Living Faith
what were you looking for then?
[Guilles asked if i had any unedited “preaching” videos of myself, then when I showed him, he says he’s not interested in anything that I have to offer to him here in private, and says he “could [not] care less what or how [I] preach in public”, and says he fully believes a passage of scripture that has absolutly NO relevance to anything either of us have been discussing! Was Guilles on a DRUG, or drinking, that caused this hateful insanity? It certainly wasn’t caused by the Holy Spirit!

1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Should I have tolerated this person in a pm or on my thread any longer? I didn’t think so. Should the fact that I use a nic disqualify my right to post or to make the decision to ban a hateful man? I don’t think so.]

Jim Gilles
???? You already told me that you have no open air videos. That was my question.

Living Faith
Ok then
Not all preaching is open air. You didn’t make that plain
i fully believe Pro_16:18
[Pro 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall].

Jim Gilles
Until you obey fb’s disclosure policy leave me alone.

[Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.(FB)
HE ASKED to banned by telling me to leave him alone, didn’t he?]

Living Faith
Go look
I will certainly leave you [alone] to deal with your haughty spirit.

[Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Pro_14:7 Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.]
So fb and Jed are your gods, I see.

No man can serve God and idols

Jim Gilles
Oh, so now you admit that you are smashing idols, eh/
No wonder you hid your identity! [I’m
reply to this conversation. Either the recipient’s account was disabled or its privacy settings don’t

[What did Guilles have against me as Smashing Idols? Why didn’t he say?]
Living Faith

Mat_6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Yesterday at 10:13am via mobile · Like · 1 · Remove Preview

Living Faith:  John [Moore], he [Gilles] exposed [more of] his own haughtiness by having you post for him, knowing he’s not allowed to post on my wall. Why would you support that?
Yesterday at 10:17am · Like
John Moore Because of the question I asked you… WHY not use your real name and WHY use a different facade then you had before… If you are Ray White, then why not be open and honest to those of us who are your FB friends and let all know who you really are? I truly do not understand.
Yesterday at 10:21am via mobile · Like · 1
John Moore Ray, this is your thread and you can block whomever you choose. However, after the can of worms you have opened here, I find it a bit disingenuous that you would block anyone…[but he doesn’t judge himself by his own standard, choosing to post for who I banned!

So this thread is just a “can of worms” to John. He sees no value in confronting the Smocks about their sins and pride because he is a respecter of persons. To John and Guilles, it’s a greater crime to use a nic and disobey FB policy than it is to offend God! Jesus called such unrighteous judgment “straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel”.]
The dictionary defines disingenuous:
an adjective
not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
synonyms: insincere, dishonest, untruthful, false, deceitful, duplicitous, lying, mendacious;
hypocritical
I said in this string that I reveal who I to whom I please when I please, not when FB demands. I make no apology for that, and it’s not a sin, so get out of my face about it.

So everyone who uses a nic at FB or youtube is a hypocrit??]
Yesterday at 10:25am via mobile · Like · 1
Living Faith: Has someone had a problem with me when I used the Smashing Idols nic that I was unaware of?

One brother had an issue with the nic. He thought it made me “unapproachable”. So I decided to use Living Faith instead, since it was a handle I had been using for years on Paltalk. My friends there called me Ray. I make my info known to whom I please, when I please. The internet is ripe with identity theft. I find no fault in others who dont tell the world and facebook all their personal private information. [And I don’t believe God does either! I find no scripture commanding I obey men in such a thing.]

Does everyone here wear a nametag in public everywhere you go? I don’t. Does that constitute “deceitfulness” on my part?

There appears to be a malicious agenda against those of us who are grieved at a filthy presentation of the gospel, and a grasping at straws, or digging deep trying to find fault in order to discredit us.

I gave my name on this string twice now. But so what if I hadn’t?
[1Ki_20:38 So the prophet departed, and waited for the king by the way, and disguised himself with ashes upon his face.
Joh 7:10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
Luk 24:15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
Luk 24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.]
Jim Gilles was blocked for the uncivil way he spoke to Faythe Butler and me in the pm you posted, John. He falsely accused her post of being “beyond cowardice”, when no one had sent her to post for them, BUT THEN HE USES YOU to post his vitriol for him, knowing he is blocked! You tell me there’s no hypocrisy in THAT? Let him post within the confines and rules of facebook, like he insists I should. Why he thought it good to expose his hatred in that pm publicly I can’t say, but the readers can see it plain as day.
Yesterday at 10:55am · Edited · Like
John McGlone John Moore, it has been asked before on this thread why Jed does not use his real name George. Why would you have a problem with Ray using a different name when he has made it abundantly clear who he is?

I do NOT think someone who does not preach at all in the open air has any authority to correct those that do, not because they can not test what is being done is good or evil. But, because they could not possibly be able to judge these things properly without some actual experience. But, the correction offered to George Smock, Jesse Morrell, and others is that just because they have years of experience does NOT mean they or I am above correction either. These corrections are not coming from all novices either.

 

Now Jim Gilles has asserted lots of false accusations about how we draw crowds, what language we use, editing our videos to hide our filthy discourses according to his charges. Why not tell him the truth of what we actually do as you witnessed for yourself at KSU some two years ago now? Why allow those false accusations hang in the air when you know differently?

[Because of his obvious respect of persons.]

Let us lay aside the filthy discourses issue George has admitted to using to draw crowds with and deal with some other issues that Jed Smock promotes and others like yourself ignore.

George Smock approves of:
1. Roman Catholic church and the pope is not a bad guy
2. Billy Graham is a good Christian prophet and evangelist.
3. Carrying around a crucifix with an image of Jesus upon it is just for visual teaching though the Bible teaches to make no images.

4. Lying and cursing are okay for the Christian walk.
5. Keeping company with men like Bro Cope who uses words like c@cksuc%er and di@%wad in his open air meetings directed toward another preacher who is actually preaching God’s Word.
Yesterday at 10:41am · Unlike · 3
Living Faith: To say that an elder who has never “open air preached” has no right to judge those who have, is clearly respect of persons. Some who have NEVER preached on the street HAVE nonetheless preached for years, and even wrestled with evil beasts who twist grace into lasciviousness. They have heard from God and endured sound doctrine and persecution. As for me, yes I have open air preached, but if you want a video of it, there are none to my knowledge. So does that disqualify my judgment, based on scripture? I think not.
[ No elitist-minded OAP group will silence my discerning or exposing the lies, idolatry, or pride among them. They have no power to GIVE OR DENY me that right; they are not God.]
I am not at all ashamed that I don’t have a collection of videos of myself for you to judge. And I am not ashamed of what I’ve been posting here and on paltalk for 12 years.[using Living Faith, or any other nic] If I need to repent of a sin, then present my wrong to me the way you’d want to be confronted.[show me God’s law, not FB’s] My prayer is this: that I will quickly humble myself to every legitimate concern of God about my walk.[from whoever, or whichever donkey God decides to use] If I show a hard, proud, unrepentant heart, shame me, separate from me, and pray for me and hope I humble myself. This is how I operate.
19 hours ago · Edited · Like · 3
Kerrigan Skelly Yes, I was just thinking some of the same things, Brother John. I find the hypocrisy and/or blindness, on this thread, to be alarming. Jed Smock calls us things like “pretenders” and “boys” (as if we aren’t men) and Jim Gilles tells all kinds of lies about us and no one [among the good ol’ boy club] SAYS A WORD. Even Jesse calls us “hypocrites”, for things that he knows are in the past, that we have repented of. And some of the things that are said about us, some of you are WELL AWARE that they are false. I see some of you “liking” such comments and I have had not one person email me to see if such things are true (for those of you who don’t know). I have no desire and feel no obligation to respond to such false accusations and comments. Some of you can assume that means that I am a “coward”, that such things are true or that I “won’t stand up for myself”…that’s fine, I don’t mind. God knows the truth and that’s really all that matters. I don’t see anyone calling Jed or Jesse a “coward” when they won’t answer the tough questions that have been asked of them.

Regarding Jim Gilles’ comments, this is his typical modus operandi. He’s done it to me other times, I’ve seen him do it to other open air preachers who disagree with him, and I’ve seen him do it to others, in general, on Facebook. He will falsely accuse someone of something…whether he is just assuming it or he just has inaccurate information. Then he will “roll with the punches”. The person won’t respond to his false accusations, so, in his mind, it more firmly substantiates that such things are true, even though such things may not be true. OR, he will find out that such things are not true and will not make any kind of public apology for his conduct and false accusations. It’s like it is his way of “finding out the truth”, before he even knows it. WICKED!

[I don’t think Kerrigan judged Guilles’ deeds unjustly. They ARE wicked.]

YET, when we call out Jed on the filthy language he uses in the open air, people come to his defense, in DROVES! AMAZING! Some of you are revealing your “true colors”, that is for sure. I’m ALL for unity, I really am. And people who know me best, have heard my heart and my words on this subject and the people involved. BUT, I will NEVER align myself, give approval to or call someone a “brother” who says such filthy things in the open air. IF I ever were to do so, please safely assume that I am backslidden.

By the way…I have been praying about this topic for YEARS! This is not some “sudden decision” I have made over these issues. I am not responding in the flesh. I am responding based upon YEARS of praying about this, discussing these issues with others who I know are Godly, seeing it discussed on Facebook, etc. My decision is firm and I will not be changing my mind “for the sake of unity” or based upon “feelings”. My decision is been based upon the TRUTH. I pray that some of you will finally open your eyes…

[See, this insn’t some NEW “can of worms” that Living Faith opened!]
Yesterday at 11:20am · Unlike · 5
Living Faith John, although I disagree that preachers who haven’t open air preached can’t correct those that have or do,
the last paragraph in your last post succinctly sums up the areas of major importance concerning the Smocks that should not be ignored.
Yesterday at 11:23am · Like
John Moore John, it is my subjective opinion that you guys should never have brought these issues up in a public forum as you have… I am sorry that you personally do not yet see this. I truly wish you did and hope that soon you will see.

[1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. [We have many here]
1Ti 5:20 Them that sin (INCLUDING ELDERS) rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
1Ti 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
1Ti 5:22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men’s sins: keep thyself pure.

2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.]

 

I love you and Kerrigan and your families and have no desire to see further divisiveness and damage done to not just Jed and Cindy but to you guys as well… You need to understand that by the way you have handled this you have greatly damaged your own ministry and the purposes of God therein.

[Kerrigan, Tracy, and John McGlone have done well in handling this situation her until John McGlone revealed a heart of respect of persons to forbid the contributions and judgments of non open air preachers.]

You, as a group, have spoken of Jed not being open to correction [how can Moore deny the fact?] but I would bring your attention to yourselves. Jesse and others have spoken words that you should consider and take corrective measures. I would hope that one day you will go publicly and in person to Jed and Cindy and ask forgiveness for the manner and the attitudes in which you handled this. Take responsibility for your own mistakes here and man up. You and Jed may never agree on some of these issues but you are personally responsible for your lack of true respect and lack of genuine love for the Smocks by your actions here… Plus you have been an enabler for others to manafest the wrong spirit also… So let me make it clear what I see is in error here; it is the manner and method that you have chosen to use that shows a problem of your heart… YOU HAVE WRONGED JED AND CINDY and I hope you will see the error of your ways and go to them and make restitution…

[I believe John Moore is dead wrong. No one on this string has wronged Jed or Cindy Smock AT ALL.]

God’s loving kindness to you and Kerrigan and to your families…
Yesterday at 11:28am via mobile · Like · 2
Living Faith: Open rebuke is better than secret love
Yesterday at 1:23pm via mobile · Like
Living Faith: Paul didn’t wrong either the fornicator or the church in 1Cor 5 to tell the church that it was proud, and that they SHOULD have mourned and have been grieving over the evil [then being practiced] of one of it’s members. The respect of persons shown in this string for one in sin is obvious, and the pride that won’t even admit anything is wrong is outrageous.
21 hours ago · Like
Living Faith 1Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.
1Co 5:2 And YE ARE PUFFED UP [proud] AND HAVE NOT RATHER MOURNED, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, [that he might repent, so] that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. [this man was disfellowshipped, did not die, repented, and was later restored to fellowship. See 2 Cor 2:5-8]
1Co 5:6 YOUR GLORYING IS NOT GOOD. KNOW YE NOT THAT A LITTLE LEAVEN LEAVENETH THE WHOLE LUMP? [certainly appropriate here!]
1Co 5:7 THEREFORE PURGE OUT THE OLD LEAVEN, that ye may be a new unleavened lump. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the FORNICATORS OF THIS WORLD (unlawful union with men like Billy Graham and ecumenism, filthy communication, idolatry with a graven image- crucifix, false accusations) or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with IDOLATERS; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, IF ANY MAN BE CALLED A BROTHER BE A FORNICATOR, or covetous (coveting the preeminence, calling godly men “boys” and “pretenders”), or an idolater (carrying a crucifix like the idolatrous Catholic popes, idolizing his ability to gather a big crowd), or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? DO NOT YE JUDGE THEM THAT ARE WITHIN?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Jer 8:5 Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding? THEY HOLD FAST DECEIT; THEY REFUSE TO RETURN

Jer 8:6 I hearkened and heard, but THEY SPAKE NOT ARIGHT: NO MAN REPENTED HIM OF HIS WICKEDNESS, SAYING, “WHAT HAVE I DONE?”
EVERY ONE TURNED TO HIS OWN COURSE, as the horse rusheth into the battle.
Jer 8:7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but MY PEOPLE KNOW NOT THE JUDGMENT OF THE LORD.
Jer 8:9 The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, THEY HAVE REJECTED THE WORD OF THE LORD; and what wisdom is in them?
Jer 8:10 Therefore will I give their wives unto others, and their fields to them that shall inherit them: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness, FROM THE PROPHET EVEN UNTO THE PRIEST, EVERY ONE DEALETH FALSELY.
Jer 8:11 For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, SAYING “PEACE! PEACE!”, when there is no peace.
Jer 8:12 WERE THEY ASHAMED WHEN THEY HAD COMMITTED ABOMINATION? NAY, THEY WERE NOT AT ALL ASHAMED, NEITHER COULD THEY BLUSH: therefore shall they fall among them that fall: in the time of their visitation they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.
19 hours ago · Like
John McGlone John Moore, I very well know that is your subjective opinion. We have spoken to Jed, and others on these issues and see that they do not desire to repent of these actions and words which bring a reproach upon the Word of God and the preaching of the Gospel. I freely admit that I have been influenced and done some of these things which they make a regular practice to do. I must run now but will finish my post later on, thanks…
19 hours ago · Like · 1
Living Faith: Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man…[we see here a club that holds up the image of Jed Smock (while Smock hold up a graven image!)]
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness …
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: …
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who, knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
19 hours ago · Like
Living Faith: Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD’S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Isa 59:3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.
Isa 59:4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.
Isa 59:5 They hatch cockatrice’ eggs, and weave the spider’s web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.
Isa 59:6 Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.
Isa 59:7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths.
Isa 59:8 The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.
Isa 59:9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.
Isa 59:10 We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.
Isa 59:11 We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us.
Isa 59:12 For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;
Isa 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
Isa 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
Isa 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and HE THAT DEPARTETH FROM EVIL MAKETH HIMSELF A PREY, AND THE LORD SAW IT, AND IT DISPLEASED HIM THAT THERE WAS NO JUDGMENT.
19 hours ago · Like
Living Faith: Mal 3:15 And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.
Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
Mal 3:17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
18 hours ago · Like
Jed Smock From George E. Smock, Jr., I call you pretenders because you pretend to have more authority than you have or that is recognized in the fraternity (we are mostly freewheelers) of open-air preachers or in the church at large for that matter. I would advise that you join the Mennonites, which would give you more credibility.[Jed would think we had “more credibility” if we were members of any church, including the Catholic whore, would he not?] As for the boys comment, it was Neil who accused the veteran street preachers of being part of a “good ole boys” network. [which is clearly NOT calling anyone “boys” in the same condecending way Jed does] Kerrigan, since I am twice your age, I consider you to still but a boy. You have not paid your dues to be regarded as a good “old” boy in my estimation. [‘you’re not part of our brown-nosin’ club’] Admittedly, I question the manhood of those who would refuse to use force to at least defend their families. Nevertheless, I am glad you are preaching in the open-air and pray that you will continue to do so, better you boys than no one. Keep at it; I pray that you will mature in the faith.
18 hours ago · Edited · Like
John McGlone John Moore, I very well know that is your subjective opinion. We have spoken to Jed, and others on these issues and see that they do not desire to repent of these actions and words which bring a reproach upon the Word of God and the preaching of the Gospel. I freely admit that I have been influenced and done some of these things which they make a regular practice to do.

I notice that you did not answer any of my points about George Smock’s other actions, would you address this now?

George Smock approves of:
1. Roman Catholic church and the pope is not a bad guy
2. Billy Graham is a good Christian prophet and evangelist.
3. Carrying around a crucifix with an image of Jesus upon it is just for visual teaching though the Bible teaches to make no images.
4. Lying and cursing are okay for the Christian walk.

5. Keeping company with men like Bro Cope who uses words like c@cksuc%er and di@%wad in his open air meetings directed toward another preacher who is actually preaching God’s Word.
I will add one more that I thought of…
6. He approves of another preacher hitting a sinner in the open air.

I can’t remember all the details but I believe that preacher is now back running with his old druggie biker gang. Maybe you can help my remembrance on that one.

Now, as open air preachers, is there any standard of conduct that we should adhere to all? Is there a place where we should draw the line in regards to those that seemingly have their own standard which we don’t agree with? If we are in public ministry and have been approached at various times by many people – both senior and junior in the open air network, should we allow these types of issues to continue that we may get along? Do we all have a responsibility to pray for, encourage, correct, and be corrected from within the body of believers? [what, does he mean only by other oaps? What if God sends a donkey?] If I care for people’s souls shouldn’t I be willing to go beyond my comfort to confront that which is unseemly according to the Word of God, and the Spirit which dwells within the believers? [Does the Holy Spirit dwell in ALL believers, John? Does the reproof of the spirit only come from oaps to other oaps?]

It seems that those of us that believe and know that confrontational evangelism works are very sensitive to being corrected ourselves. [Ain’t THAT the truth! Elitism hardens.] Jesus was the author of confrontation in evangelism. But, never do we see in the preaching in the NT anything like what is being done today by some in the open air. There is NOTHING new under the sun! Why didn’t Paul talk about pickles and bananas in a rebuke about sexuality in Corinth or anywhere else? Why, because it is not needed. Preach God’s Word and let the Living Word pierce the hearts of men. Yes, it may take a bit longer to draw a crowd sometimes. But, where does the Bible say that we are to be pragmatic about drawing crowds? It just says preach it, the Lord will do His work in the souls of men!

Col 2:8
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
18 hours ago · Unlike · 2

Tracy Bays This post will not fit. So I will have to post it in parts.

Jesse said, “The devil’s strategy with the church has always been to “divide and conquer.””

I disagree. I believe his strategy has been to unite with the world. Any division caused among Brethren has been to move toward that ultimate goal. If the devil can get Brethren to separate from God, and unite with the world, that is his actual aim. I am glad you do agree to separating, when needed. My question would be: What constitutes a valid reason to separate?

For me, if someone is in sin, then they are not my Brother. [James 5:19-20] I was not the one that caused the separation. The Brother that had sinned, had caused the separation. First, by sinning, secondly, by refusing correction on the sin. At that point, they ceased from being my Brother. Only those that do the will of my Father in Heaven are my Brother, or Sister. Don’t forget that Jesus did not come to unite, but to divide! [Mat 10:34] We are never to unite with worldly philosophies. We are to separate from those things. We are never to unite in fellowship with unrepentant sinners. We are to separate from them. God brings separation. God separates the Brethren from the devils. A sinner is a devil. You cannot have unity within the body of Christ unless everyone is free from sin. No sin is to be tolerated.

This conversation with “Jed” took place a while ago here on FB. I believe you were also part of that dialog, also. This was the time that Brother Kerrigan did his 10 pitfalls video, which I believe was a great warning to Gospel preachers. It was revealed that Cindy used the “F” word during her preaching, and that “Jed” had defended and condoned the use of that word. It was then that I learned that Mr. Cope was one of “Jed’s” trusted advisers. It was also when I learned that Mr. Cope thinks he gives God advise, and tells God what to do…and that he is supposedly an Apostle. [He claims he’s “higher than a prophet” too!] This is not news to “Jed”. He knows of these [whacko] heretical beliefs of Mr. Cope, and still receives advice from him. Who knows, maybe “Jed” receives advise from Mr. Cope, because he believes him. I mean if a man is smart enough for God to go to for help and advice, then he would be the “go to guy”. If Mr. Cope knows more than God, then it would logically [stand to] reason that we could just bypass God, since God would not be a good person to ask. If it was over God’s head, then He would have to ask Mr. Cope anyway. Better to save God the trouble of humbling Himself to ask Mr. Cope, especially since we can just go to Mr. Cope ourselves. I really don’t know why “Jed” accepts counsel from that twisted man. That is just a possible reason. Another possible reason is they are both twisted.

So the explanation from Mr. Cope, at that time, concerning profanity- is that profanity does not exist. They are just syllables – just audible sounds and noises that mean nothing of themselves… that words really have no meaning… that if you know you are pure in your heart, then you could say anything you want. Under that reasoning, you could also do anything you want, as long as you know your heart is pure. Well, that seems logical – except when you realize that our personal judgment and assessment does not mean anything on Judgment Day. On that day, the only thing that matters is the judgment and assessment of God. I wonder if Mr. Cope thinks he will be giving God advice on that day? Will God need the help of Mr. Cope on how to judge people? I know this may seem like I am joking, but I am most assuredly not joking. This is a logical line of questioning, if Mr. Cope were somehow correct.
[Cope does believe he will be judging the sinners on judgment day. He told a man on campus he would put his fingers into his eye sockets and use them like the holes in a bowling ball to throw him into the lake of fire.]

This method of separating meaning from the words, and reducing all languages down to noises-meaningless of themselves is known as deconstructionism.

Deconstruction (French: déconstruction) is a literary theory and philosophy of language derived principally from Jacques Derrida’s 1967 work Of Grammatology.[1] The premise of deconstruction is that all of Western literature and philosophy implicitly relies on a metaphysics of presence,[2][3] where intrinsic meaning is accessible by virtue of pure presence.[4][5] Deconstruction denies the possibility of a pure presence and thus of essential or intrinsic meaning.[6][7]

cont ……
18 hours ago · Like · 1
Tracy Bays …. cont

This deconstruction is GREATLY used in the emergent church heresies. By removing meaning from a word, they can then reconstruct any meaning they wish to suit their current need. This way, they are not restricted by the Bible. Then, instead of having to accept what they don’t want to agree with, they can reject it. They actually reject the whole thing by deconstructing the Bible to absurdity, and then they build it back up after their own desires. By doing this, they can use their mind to logically shape the Bible to anything they wish. It is done in a very logical way. This use of logical reasoning for deconstruction and reconstruction is used to convince people of whatever you want them to believe.

This is what Mr. Cope has done. Quite impressive philosophical work to be sure, but still very much against Scripture in every way. The only limiting factor becomes the conscience of the individual. [Scripture] must be continually rationalized away, [and that is accomplished] after enough time of following logic and ignoring conscience. Eventually, the person becomes reprobate [and his conscience seared].

I have quoted this before.

Pro_14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Pro_16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

It is not saying there is a way that seems wrong to a man. It clearly says there is a way that seems right. Allow me to further explain. There is a way that is completely and perfectly logical to a man, but the result of that is eternal suffering in the Lake of Fire. Just because there is a complete and perfectly logical way does not mean it is the right way. As Christians, we do not abandon all logic. Jesus told us to love God with all our mind.

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Yet there are times when we must override our logic; we must allow Scripture to supersede our logic. What I mean by that is that there are times when we have a logical understanding, but the Scriptures give us a command which is contrary to that understanding. Example: It is very logical to tell a lie in some situations. If it means saving lives, then lying is OK. That is something that seems completely logical to men. Also, killing people is logical in some situations. Also, committing adultery is also logical in some situations. Watching pornography can be logical. Abortion can be logical if it means saving the life of the mother, and maybe even losing the life of the baby as well. Even fornicating with a prostitute can be logical in the right situation. Yet all of these examples will end in death- the eternal suffering of the Second Death. Yet, these reasonings are logical to men. The reason I can say they all end in Hellfire is because I have commands that are in Scripture. Those commands supersede any logic a man may try to bring. We are simply told to not do these things, even if they seem logical. Even if they seem morally OK to us, we are still given commands, and they override any opinion you may have.

This idea of excusing some sins, in certain situations, is known as Situational Ethics. What I find as interesting, is that both deconstruction, and Situational Ethics were developed in the 1960’s. Two different men for each school of philosophy. Yet, they both came about during the same time period. I have a fairly logical mind. When I begin to see a pattern, I will take notice. As an Electronic Technician, Web designer, Industrial Mechanic, etc. I will spot patterns. It is all a part of troubleshooting. When I see a particular pattern, I try to look for the root cause of that pattern. When I look at cults, I will key in on the similarities of each cult. Then when I see that, I try to locate the source.

cont …
18 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
Tracy Bays … cont

Example: Mormonism, Roman Catholicism, and Islam all have some common traits. Joseph Smith and Mohammed both claimed to see an angelic figure. Both were on some level unsure of the vision. Joseph Smith changed his story at least three times. Mohammed wasn’t sure if it was a demon or an angel. He was convinced by his Roman Catholic wife that it was angel. Yet, he still had some doubts, and was even fearful of burning in Hell just a few weeks before he died. They both claimed to have secret information from this encounter. They both claim the Scriptures were corrupted, and they had come to correct the problems. Roman Catholicism also had Augustine. He had believed in secret revelation when he was a Gnostic – even though it seems like he might have been Born again. He later backslid into his previous Gnostic, and also Neo Platonist views. So his doctrines of inability, Original Sin, etc were his way of sharing this secret knowledge. All three groups also believe it is OK to lie. The Jesuits believe that you can tell a lie with your lips, but not mean it in your heart. They were trained to lie with their lips, and in their heart say the truth. In their mind, their heart remained pure even thought they spoke a lie. Islam uses a similar practice – except they know they are lying, but they believe they will not be judged for that lie. Mormons do the same. They call it “Milk before meat”. This basically means they can lie to you in the beginning, with the overall purpose to eventually tell you the truth. They begin by saying they worship the same Jesus that we do. They know they don’t. Yet, to them, they are starting where you are, and then eventually will bring you where they are. They don’t believe this is lying. They think it is evangelism; missionary work.

The reason I have said the things I have is not to divide Brothers from each other. My comments are to aimed to keep Brothers from fellowshipping with sinners. I believe George Smock has been properly rebuked. Not only by me. He had been rebuked by other Brothers with many more years preaching experience than me. So to say “Jed” only rejects our correction because he does not knows us; to say he only rejects us because we are not experienced enough, or mature in the faith… these assertions are wrong. They are deceptions. They are lies. “Jed” knows there are godly men who he does know, and who do have experience, and are mature – who have rebuked him on these very same things we have discussed here. Yet he also rejects them as well. Truth is, “Jed” does not repent because he does not want to repent. It [rebellion] is his heart. It [rebellion] is his will. He simply will not repent. So, I am not seeking to divide Brothers. I am calling for discernment, and also calling for Brothers to stop treating that heathen as if he were a saint. He is not. The whole purpose for Biblical separation is the hope the sinner might feel the shame caused by the separation, and possibly repent. This does not work, as long as Brothers still refuse to separate from the sinner.

I have noticed that under the banner of ecumenicism, preachers are ignoring sins among themselves. Yet they don’t hesitate for a moment to rebuke the very same sin in someone else on campus or on the street. It is blatant hypocrisy. It sets up a double standard. One standard for the populace to be judged from, and a separate standard for preachers to be judged from. It is a form of modern day Pharisee’s. The Pharisee’s did teach a lot of false doctrine. Yet, also taught obedience to the law of Moses – The Torah. Yet, they themselves did not keep the Torah, [while] they expected everyone else to keep it. This is what I am seeing among [some] Gospel preachers. While preaching, they are quick to judge a person they never met, yet they refuse to judge another preacher. Anyone that does that is a Pharisee. They will even use God’s word to do this – by using unclear verses (mostly from the old Testament) to make the clear verses (mostly spoken by Jesus) of no effect. It is the same thing the Pharisee’s did. Then if you point this out, they will often accuse you of being the Pharisee. “Stop seeking to cause division among Brothers! If you lived in the days the prophet Malachi was around, you would join the Pharisee’s and come against him too!” I also see these men lead the new preachers in their footsteps. Doing the same as the Pharisee’s did. Making them two times the sons of Hell as themselves! This greatly concerns me! I can see this happening. I am morally compelled to do something about it.
[AMEN, Tracy. I ALSO AM GRIEVED BY THIS, AND THAT IS THE VERY REASON I HAVE RE-POSTED THIS THREAD – TO WARN OTHERS SO THEY WILL NOT BE DECEIVED BY THESE CHARLOTANS AND END UP IN HELL WITH THEM!]
Jesse. I see you are changing. You are not changing for the better. You are slowly turning into these men. You see them as Brethren. You have been convinced by them, that their behavior is not really sin. You claim they do things, that you would not do. The problem is, that you are beginning to do the very same things. You are slowly, and gradually beginning to do more of the things that you previously said you would not do. They are trying to convince you that this is maturity. They want you to think that strictly following the bible, and keeping yourself unspotted from the world is what the baby Christians do. That when you become mature, you will not fret over these “little things”. If they are such “little things” then why are they so unwilling to stop doing them? Why do they fight so hard to keep doing what they see as little things. If they really were little things, then they should be very easy to forsake, and their ministry would not suffer from the absence of them. The truth is, they don’t want to stop doing these things, because they ENJOY DOING THEM! These so called “little things” are what makes preaching pleasurable to them. They will claim it helps the sinners. In truth it just helps them get a kick out of preaching. It is not just to entertain the sinners they preach to. It entertains themselves. Who are also sinners.
[bingo, Tracy.

Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.]

Jesse if you cannot rebuke a preacher on something, then you cannot rebuke anyone on that same thing. If you do, then you will make yourself a hypocrite. I can rebuke cussing, because I no longer do it, and also I show no partiality when rebuking. I don’t rebuke only sinners at the preach. If I see a preacher cussing, I will rebuke him too! If I don’t do that, then I cannot rebuke anyone for doing it. The same goes for dirty sex talk. If I will not rebuke a preacher for sinning, then I cannot rebuke anyone for sinning. If I did, then I would be a hypocrite. If I cannot preach to myself, or to other preachers, then I cannot preach to anyone. There is not a double standard. We are all judged by the same standard. I must preach to everyone, without partiality. If I don’t, then I might as well indulge in the worst sins this world has to offer. Since one unrepented sin will send me to eternal suffering, as will a multitude of sins. The only difference might be the severity of punishment. Yet the least extreme [punishment] in the Lake of Fire will be many times more than any punishment possible in this temporal life.

cont …
18 hours ago · Like · 3
Tracy Bays … cont

I think it is loving to tell George Smock he is a heathen and needs to be restored to the faith. I believe it is dangerous and unloving to ignore his sin simply because you like the man. I believe you have blinded yourself to him, like you have to other men, merely because you believe you owe them something. God is no respecter of persons. He will judge them whether you like them or not. If you are careless, then you will also be judged in the same way by God.
I love you to tell you these things. I know the longer time you spend with these men, the more you will become one of them. George Smock has not always done these things. He has been corrupted over many years. He kept bad company, and it corrupted his good conversation. The same will happen to you, if you do not stop endorsing their behavior. You do endorse them, by associating with them. I believe you are adopting their double standard and turning a blind eye to their sin. Ignorance only goes as far as not knowing. Once you know, then it is no longer ignorance. It becomes negligence.
I want to believe you are ignorant, but when I see some of the same things coming from you. Then I fear you are not ignorant. I fear you are negligent, and even compliant.

I have a logical mind, yet I will remain meek. I will remain under the commands of God, even to my own loss. That is true meekness. To remain faithful while under pressure. Arabian horses are the meekest horses known in the world. I have been told they can be so trained to respond to command. They will not do anything without command. The claim is you could set a fire under one of these trained horses. They will burn to death, and not move, unless they receive the command! [I find such a claim incredible] They are only horses. How much more meek should a child of the Most High God be?

END
18 hours ago · Like · 4
Tracy Bays I realize my previous post is lengthy. I want to highlight the last part. I will rebuke these men that are so looked up to even to my own loss within Street Preaching circles. Even if many men refuse to fellowship or preach with me due to my rebuking of these men, then I will suffer that loss. I obey the commands of God no matter what men may say or do. I must remain under the leading of God in the midst of any pressure that may come from the world. You sin, and you will be rebuked. If you do not want me to rebuke you, then you have two options:
1. Don’t sin.
2. Don’t associate with me.

I did not begin any of these discussions under leadership from my Fellowship. We do have agreement on these things, yet we do not decide when someone will engage on a topic. I had seen it accused that we are just doing the will of Brother Kerrigan. That is untrue. I do everything under the will of God. If I do not, then I will need to repent. The Lord has led me to engage on all these topics. The Lord Jesus has led me to rebuke the sin of “Jed”, and others. Brother Kerrigan has agreed with my statements. He has done that because they are true, not from some alleged pre-agreement. Kerrigan has agreed, because the Lord is leading him in the same instruction.

If any Christian or preacher claims to be meek, then [he must] rebuke other preachers if they sin. He will complete God’s will in this way, under all pressure. If you do not deny yourself in obedience in this way, then you are not meek at all. This is not something you can do without. Unless you exhibit all the fruits of the Spirit, then you do not have the Holy Spirit at all! Perfection means completion. If you are not complete, then you are not perfect. If you are not perfectly in Christ, then you are perfectly out of Christ. God hates the popularity contests that men play with each other. It is all based in pride. If you have this double standard, then God resists you in your pride. We need to humble ourselves, and be meek. We must do it God’s way, even if another way is completely logical to man.
18 hours ago · Edited · Like · 3
Patricia White “If you are not perfectly in Christ, then you are perfectly out of Christ.” Wow Brother Tracy…simple and profound. That needs to be put on a banner. [Amen!]
17 hours ago · Like · 3
Annie Welch Britt Since Jim Giles is blocked he has asked me to post this from him [here is another blatantly disrespectful post]

Copy and paste this to the thread for me.

I am reading today’s comments. Why are they so bold to speak now about me behind my back now that I am blocked. What false accusations have I labelled against them? John already admitted to them. We all know that they tone down their message when around certain people like John Moore.
13 hours ago via mobile · Like
Annie Welch Britt from Jim as well [and yet another! I guess these hypocrites quickly forgot that Jim Guilles called doing this very thing “beyond cowardly”.]
Let’s see the unedited videos for the last 2 years.
13 hours ago via mobile · Like
John McGlone Annie Welch Britt, maybe you could get Jim to answer these points for John Moore, as I know of his approval of George Smock:

George Smock approves of:
1. Roman Catholic church and the pope is not a bad guy
2. Billy Graham is a good Christian prophet and evangelist.
3. Carrying around a crucifix with an image of Jesus upon it is just for visual teaching, even though the Bible teaches to make no images.
4. Lying and cursing are okay for the Christian walk.
5. Keeping company with men like Bro Cope who uses words like c@cksuc%er and di@%wad (in his open air meetings), directed toward another preacher who is actually preaching God’s Word.
I will add one more that I thought of:
6. He approves of another preacher hitting a sinner in the open air.

(I can’t remember all the details but I believe that preacher is now back running with his old druggie biker gang. Maybe you can help my remembrance on that one.)
[John McGlone should have reminded Annie not to post for Jim Guilles on this string, since he’s banned, but to answer elsewhere. Who thinks I should allow this shameful game to continue, anyway? The disrespectful posting for that vile man by two or three of the “club” is the reason I shut this string down.]
13 hours ago · Like
John McGlone Let Jim know he can look at my YT channel anytime.
13 hours ago · Like
Annie Welch Britt i will relay the messages..
13 hours ago via mobile · Like
Neil Konitshek: It is clear that the Good Old Boys Network life members, Gilles, Jed Smock, Micah Armstrong, Jesse Morrell, etc. are never going to admit to any sin or accept any correction from anyone. Sadly, we can’t get them to agree on almost anything, and I have resorted to just blocking most of them. I wish it was different, as there are so few of us who continue to preach on a weekly basis, and we do really need unity among us. Unity comes at a price, though, and we can’t lower our standards and accept foul language and ungodly methods for the sake of unity.

Yes, I do speak my mind, and I did get angry at Jed’s antics, but I never used any foul language toward him or anyone else, and I certainly didn’t try to “steal his crowd”, ( LOL). I would never encourage anyone that it is okay to sin, or that we do not need to walk in pureness of heart and true holiness.

I certainly need correction at times, and I welcome it if it is done in the right spirit.
Paul says,
“Therefore let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall.”1 Corinthians 10:12
· Edited · Like
John Moore John McGlone perhaps you didn’t read my comment or you didn’t take it serious… If I think it wrong for you to do what you are continuing to do by attacking Jed and Cindy publicly then why would you ask me to comment on each of your accusations against them? You have chosen to disregard the concerns I have regarding this pile of male bovine excrement you have placed here… Now perhaps you can include me in your name calling since I have used “filth” in this comment… I was going to put “LOL” after that statement but for some reason i doubt your willingness to see the humor in my statement… I am no longer going to follow this thread…
[I respected John Moore before he exposed his heart on this thread. The Lord rebuke him.]
via mobile · Like · 1
Neil Konitshek John, We could have done it in private, in the forum created by Jesse Morrell, but as soon as I made a comment there in that forum, Jesse kicked me out. So much for free speech! Private or public, it doesn’t matter. They have hardened their hearts and stopped their ears.
· Like
Tracy Bays “Jed” has said

“From George E. Smock, Jr., I call you pretenders because you pretend to have more authority than you have or that is recognized in the fraternity (we are mostly freewheelers) of open-air preachers or in the church at large for that matter. I would advise that you join the Mennonites, which would give you more credibility. As for the boys comment, it was Neil who accused the veteran street preachers of being part of a “good ole boys” network. Kerrigan, since I am twice your age, I consider you to still but a boy. You have not paid your dues to be regarded as a good “old” boy in my estimation. Admittedly, I question the manhood of those who would refuse to use force to at least defend their families. Nevertheless, I am glad you are preaching in the open-air and pray that you will continue to do so, better you boys than no one. Keep at it; I pray that you will mature in the faith.”

If you cannot see the pride of life in that comment, then you are completely blind. I’m not a man because I am willing to lose everything for the sake of Christ? I am not a man because I believe the Holy Spirit is more powerful than a bullet, or martial arts? OK. I’ll just follow Jesus. It doesn’t matter if you think I am a man. It only matters if I am obedient to God.

From my position on that topic: A coward would use use physical force. It takes more courage to endure hardship, knowing you could easily kill the person that is attacking you. Jesus is my example in this. He endured it unto death, and the whole time He could have killed every human on the planet, and had Judgment Day early. He could have sent the entire human race to Hell forever. He decided to stay under obedience under pressure. He forsook what He was able to do, in favor of what He must do. I follow that example.
8 hours ago · Like · 2
Jed Smock Jim Gilles
Copy and paste this to the thread for me.
I am reading today’s comments. Why are they so bold to speak now about me behind my back now that I am blocked. What false accusations have I labelled against them? John McGlone already admitted to them. We all know that they tone down their message when around certain people like John Moore. Let’s see all of the unedited footage for the last 2 years!!
[lies]
8 hours ago · Like
Jed Smock I dedicate this song to the Johnnie come late-lies on this thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1oJuwkXr0E
YouTube – The Great Pretender-The Platters(1956)
YouTube – The Great Pretender-The Platters(1956)

[pride]
7 hours ago · Like · Remove Preview
Tracy Bays I have not blocked anyone from here, yet. This will be my last post for the next few days. I have said all that I care to. I don’t believe I have left anything out. I have to pray about it. I might not continue in this thread.
7 hours ago · Like
Kerrigan Skelly I think that Tracy said all that needs to be said regarding your “boys” insult, Jed. I’ll let God be the judge of that. Now concerning this “influence” that you are supposing that I am assuming that I have…and this imaginary fraternity that you speak…See More
5 hours ago via mobile · Like · 2
Jesse Morrell Kerrigan said, “Even Jesse calls us “hypocrites”, for things that he knows are in the past, that we have repented of. “

Can you be more specific? I think you guys are being hypocritical because of recent events that I did not know you repented of. …See More
3 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
Jed Smock Sister Cindy answered a question privately which was posted on this thread. I decide to go ahead and post it on the thread because the pretenders are writing things that misrepresent us. I am not aware that any of them have really listened to my mi…See More
3 hours ago · Like
Neil Konitshek I don’t agree with some of the things Kerrigan, John McGlone, and Tracy do or believe, and I am sure they don’t agree with me, but from this thread I can see that God is surely working in their lives, and that they are not afraid to admit their mistakes…See More
2 hours ago via mobile · Unlike · 1
[rebellion]ATTENTION! Copy this string if you want to keep a record of it. I think this has gone on long enough here. Someone else can keep this fire burning somewhere else if they want to.
49 minutes ago · Like · 1
[rebellion]WARNING! The next person attempting to post anything from anyone I have blocked [such as Jim Gilles] will be blocked and removed from my friend list. That is outrageously disrespectful.
6 minutes ago · Like

To watch the video, click on “youtube” in the lower right hand corner of it.